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Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

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Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#101

Post by sarchertech »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #84
sarchertech wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At big tech companies they are already paying $200k or more than they'd pay the same worker in their home country for existing H-1Bs. An extra $100k might tip the scale for some but not for all. The most likely outcome is that body shops can no longer afford H-1Bs, but big tech still can.

> The most likely outcome is that body shops can no longer afford H-1Bs, but big tech still can. For publicly-held large tech, the equation isn't about affordability but about maximizing shareholder dividends. Moving jobs overseas has long been the preferred means to that end.

Sure, but they have always been able to do that. It's always been cheaper to hire employees overseas than to employe H-1Bs here. Making H-1Bs more expensive increases the delta and probably makes it more attractive for some jobs. But clearly there is some value in employing people in the US or they would have already moved the jobs.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#102

Post by yibg »

slg wrote: post #97
yibg wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 26% don’t see this as overreach, they see it as putting the corrupt radical left | greedy corporations | immigrants in their place.

The rate the Trump administration is losing plausible deniability has been accelerating over recent months/weeks/days. The MAGA diehards flying Trump flags aren't going to change their ways because they are true believers in "putting the corrupt radical left | greedy corporations | immigrants in their place". But what about all the techno-libertarians that populate HN? Can you genuinely say this type of loophole that…

I hope majority of the voting population sees this for what it is. The question is is there anything that can be done about it. There is midterms but that's a long ways out, especially at the speed things are moving now. Congress isn't keeping the executive branch in check, neither is the judiciary.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#103

Post by jonathanstrange »

rayiner wrote: post #91
jonathanstrange wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India has the largest population on Earth and Indians have more incentives to leave their country than Chinese.

India has 130 million college graduates, and 70% of H1bs. Mexico, Brazil, and Colombia together have over 50 million graduates, but only around 2% of H1bs combined.

So the US is more popular among Indians than among Mexicans, Brazilians, and Colombians. What is the point?

And why these countries when I've already said the same about Indians vs. Chinese?

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#104

Post by vkou »

sarchertech wrote: post #88
vkou wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's really wild is anyone seeing that the solution to the multitude of real and self-inflicted problems in this country is... A shakedown of and a head tax on immigrants. I wonder what's next. Maybe stealing their 401Ks and their SS contributions?

That's clearly not a solution to any of the other problems in the country. But making a bad visa program more expensive to employers abusing it is potentially a way to mitigate it. Here's Bernie Sanders comments on the H-1B visa. "The main function of the H-1B visa program is not to hire “the best and the brightest,” but rather to replace good-paying American jobs with low-wage indentured servants from abroad."

It's funny that you quote Sanders on this, when this EO's solution to 'human beings are being mistreated' is not 'stop mistreating them' it's 'lets do our best to throw as many as we can out'.

It's right up there with Oregon's stance on slavery. (The state banned it and fought for the Union on the basis that it didn't want any --------- living in it, even enslaved ones.)

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#105

Post by andrewinardeer »

mapontosevenths wrote: post #45
wrs wrote: post #20

Note that the fee can be waived at the discretion of the Secretary of Homeland Security. So, just like the tariffs, one purpose of this change is to give companies the opportunity to come to the White House and ask what favors they can do in exchange for a waiver.

This. Their arbitrary nature is designed to consolidate executive branch authority that can be welded as a weapon against corporations that might consider supporting his opposition in the future. It's a classic fascist ploy, and is further proof that executive orders should be banned. In America we do not have kings who rule by decree, or at least we should not..

If executive orders get banned, should presidential pardons as well? This instrument can also be used for leverage.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#106

Post by yibg »

sarchertech wrote: post #82
yibg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can take issues with the current (previous) H1B policy and the new one at the same time. There was abuse of the H1B program, but this new EO also has issues. The biggest one currently is the rollout. There is no guidance, no mechanism to pay the actual fee, no clarity on if it applies retroactively to existing visa holders etc.

>You can take issues with the current (previous) H1B policy and the new one at the same time. That's entirely true. But that's not what I've been hearing since this EO was announced. I've just heard pro immigration arguments about all the good H-1B visas accomplish with none of the downsides.

We must be reading different things. In the other post about this topic (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45305845) there were lots of discussions on the benefits of changing how the H1B program is run, with many in favor of this type of change.

I can't speak for others, but for me this seems like

1) a shakedown of corporations and / or

2) a way to ban immigration without being technically a ban

But overall I see this as another anti-immigration "policy" that's coherent with the rest of the anti-immigration policies from this administration. Hence the pro-immigration arguments.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#107

Post by sarchertech »

nojito wrote: post #78
sarchertech wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The median salary of someone on H1B is higher than someone not on H1B. Not within the same job in the same location they aren't. If you're on an H-1B and you get fired or laid off, you have 60 days to find a new job or be deported. That creates an underclass of workers who are willing to put up with much worse working conditions and work longer hours. That drives down working conditions and wages for everyone.

>Not within the same job in the same location they aren't. The actual data doesn't support this belief. 100% offer market wages and 78% offer higher than market wages.

1. I'd need to see the exact data you're citing.

2. It's a common tactic to employ people on H-1Bs in a lower paying job title while having the perform the work of a higher paying title.

3. You'd need to adjust for average number of hours worked.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#108

Post by BoredPositron »

dragonwriter wrote: post #60
mapontosevenths wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Their arbitrary nature is designed to consolidate executive branch authority that can be welded as a weapon against corporations that might consider supporting his opposition in the future. It's a classic fascist ploy, and is further proof that executive orders should be banned. In America we do not have kings who rule by decree, or at least we should not..

Banning executive orders is nonsense; you can’t have an executive branch with a head and prohibit the head from giving direction to the rest of the executive branch. Executive orders that violate, or direct the violation of, existing law are illegal (or, at least, without legal effect) to the extent they do that, but whether or not a particular order meets that description is frequently a matter of dispute, which can…

The US worked pretty well without them before?

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#109

Post by dang »

abnercoimbre wrote: post #86
apwell23 wrote: post #7

this site is so much better than X

Most people on HN appear to be using it for submissions now, which is a welcome development.

All: please submit the original source and then add a link to alt sources in the comments.

I know the twitwall is frustrating (it is to us too) but we want HN posts to link to original sources, and for the site name to the right of the title to reflect that. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

We're happy to pin the alt links to the top of a thread and/or to move them into the top text, as I did in the current case.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#110

Post by [deleted] »

BoredPositron wrote: post #108
dragonwriter wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning executive orders is nonsense; you can’t have an executive branch with a head and prohibit the head from giving direction to the rest of the executive branch. Executive orders that violate, or direct the violation of, existing law are illegal (or, at least, without legal effect) to the extent they do that, but whether or not a particular order meets that description is frequently a matter of dispute, which can…

The US worked pretty well without them before?

[deleted]
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