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Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

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Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#101

Post by bobthepanda »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #94
bobthepanda wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to sympathize with the experience between scalping, which is bad, but also now there's all sorts of priority queues for people with various levels of pay-to-play which are pretty distasteful. AMEX presale, cell carrier presale, etc. all feels terrible. And the show is fun but my local arena renovated within the last decade and now feels like an airport terminal with all the tiered lounges, ripoff concession…

Oh, for what it's worth, I might only go to an arena show once or twice more in my life, to see those "would like to see them in my lifetime before they break up or die" bands.

Unfortunately, in my city the arena is now the medium size venue, between "slightly larger than a large nightclub" and "a whole stadium for multiple tens of thousands of people"

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#102

Post by zer00eyz »

fnordlord wrote: post #35
zer00eyz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NO Scalping has existed since forever. The thing was it was local promoters + local sales (aka criminals) who would get tickets from management (yes thats the artists management) and kick the money back to the artist if they were lucky (if not the management kept it). Now TM owns the venue, they are the promotor, they are the manager(to an extent) and have full control of the tickets, and the secondary market. The ar…

By the reasoning of "Now TM owns the venue, they are the promotor, they are the manager(to an extent) and have full control of the tickets, and the secondary market." I would think the artist is 100% at the mercy of TM rather than in on the game. With that kind of control, why would they share with the artist?

> With that kind of control, why would they share with the artist?

Its in both parties benefit to find a mutually lucrative deal. More so when the customer is not that bright and motivated by "passion" and "fan culture". That same sort of passion (about music) leads to all parties underpaying a lot of staff (people want to be in the industry for some reason). Tech has its own version of this, see game development for over worked and under paid talent who does the job out of "passion".

"Influencers" selling burgers, backpacks, sports drinks and screw drivers is no different than concert t-shirts, posters, coffins and condoms. An artist is more than just the songs they sing. It's the film / TV that work shows up in. It's the other products artists can sell (a lot of this is other peoples art but...) and the things they can promote. They can exist without TM but the same cant be said in the other direction.

And some times the artist do get screwed. When your management and TM/LN folks have a relationship that dates back to Bill Graham Presents there is likely a back side deal that gives the management an extra kick.

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#103

Post by MengerSponge »

bombcar wrote: post #66
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their whole business is based on bullying, dark patterns and ripoff No. It’s based on monopoly. There are a limited number of venues that can host a modern superstar, generally no more than one per geography, and Ticketmaster made it a point to represent all of them. Which means any modern superstar and their fans must work through Ticketmaster. Which, in turn, enables this nonsense. The cause is monopoly. Not “bul…

It’s worse than that. The venue contracts with Ticketmaster to hike all the fees and shit, which then get kicked back in some percentage to the venue (and sometimes the band) and Ticketmaster takes the heat. So the 50% that goes to “Ticketmaster” may be 80% to the venue.

They're a liability sink. It's good business!

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#104

Post by _whiteCaps_ »

quickthrowman wrote: post #36
leakycap wrote: post #4

Hard to care what happens to a company like TicketMaster. As you build your company, ask yourself how they ended up like this. Do you think the founders had this outcome in mind when they started (everyone hating them and seeing them as an evil money grab)? They probably started with a different ethos. A good reminder that what we do can change - we need to instill our values into the basics of everything we build, o…

I go to a few concerts a year and enjoy them, but the only Ticketmaster concert I’ve ever been to was last year. I paid $115 each (with fees!) for good floor seats to see Weezer, Dinosaur Jr, and the Flaming Lips in 2024. The multi hundred or multi thousand dollar event tickets are insane, I’d never pay that much for a concert. I am lucky to have local independent music venues (First Avenue in Mpls, they own a few lo…

OT but I saw this show in Vancouver and was shocked at how few people knew the Flaming Lips and how many young kids were into Weezer. I went with my son who I thought had weird musical taste and wanted to see Weezer, but a ton of his friends when to the concert as well for the same reason.

The price was worth it to see the giant pink robots though!

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#105

Post by Symbiote »

prmoustache wrote: post #77

There would be no scalpers if people weren't buying tickets to scalpers. The answer is easy. Don't buy crazy expensive tickets.

Or take the approach of several European countries: tickets cannot be resold for more than face value.

Ticketmaster still double-dips on running a resale platform and charging a "processing fee" for reselling a ticket, but it means the original ticket purchased for €100 + €10 "fees" is resold for €100 + €10 "resale fees" and not more than that.

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#106

Post by snthd »

leakycap wrote: post #4

Hard to care what happens to a company like TicketMaster. As you build your company, ask yourself how they ended up like this. Do you think the founders had this outcome in mind when they started (everyone hating them and seeing them as an evil money grab)? They probably started with a different ethos. A good reminder that what we do can change - we need to instill our values into the basics of everything we build, o…

>A good reminder that what we do can change - we need to instill our values into the basics of everything we build, otherwise we'll just be building the next TicketMaster, Oracle, or Meta.

Both Ellison and Zuckerberg still control their respective companies. The problem is not that they didn't instill their values.

In the case of ticketmaster, they just plain sold out.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/economi...

>Ticketmaster's fate was changed in 1982, when Chicago investor Jay Pritzker purchased it. Pritzker, the wealthy owner of the Hyatt Hotel chain, paid $4 million for the entire company.

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#107

Post by pavel_lishin »

Symbiote wrote: post #105
prmoustache wrote: post #77

There would be no scalpers if people weren't buying tickets to scalpers. The answer is easy. Don't buy crazy expensive tickets.

Or take the approach of several European countries: tickets cannot be resold for more than face value. Ticketmaster still double-dips on running a resale platform and charging a "processing fee" for reselling a ticket, but it means the original ticket purchased for €100 + €10 "fees" is resold for €100 + €10 "resale fees" and not more than that.

I had to re-sell my ticket, and I sold it for maybe 16% of its value, _and_ had to pay $100 - twice! - for the fucking privilege, and presumably whoever bought my ticket did too.

Double-dipping? Triple, at least.

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#108

Post by pavel_lishin »

dfxm12 wrote: post #80
prmoustache wrote: post #77

There would be no scalpers if people weren't buying tickets to scalpers. The answer is easy. Don't buy crazy expensive tickets.

The answer is easy. Don't buy crazy expensive tickets. I think this is a knock on effect of wealth inequality. People on here are talking about buying $700 tickets. My first thought is that the price sounds insane, but my second thought is to recognize that some folks have way more disposable income than I do. So $700 might be just another night out for someone else...

It's me! I bought $700 tickets! It's very rare for us to go to something so expensive, but it was two bands that we both really wanted to see, and we're genuinely not sure if we'll ever have the chance to see them again.

Don't think of this as "regular concert spending"; think of this as "anniversary dinner" spending.

(But, yes, we both work, and can afford to buy the $700 tickets, and eat most of the cost as well when we couldn't attend the show last minute.)

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#109

Post by EGreg »

solumos wrote: post #61
EGreg wrote: post #13

The real question is, why is TicketMaster allowed to strongarm venues into essentially perpetuating its monopoly forever?

Ticketmaster + venues are incentivized to maximize primary ticket sales. Ticket brokers are generally willing to take on the risk of buying up tickets to events on the primary market and constrain supply to turn a profit on the secondary market. This works because TM and secondary platforms can claim ignorance and control the narrative: “we do our best to prevent bots”/“fans should be free to resell their tickets” Th…

“The only way around it is for the government to…”

This isnt the only way at all

As a technologically literate libertarian, I will say that word HN hates: “blockchain”.

Yes, a lot that you think you need to place trust in large institutions for, can now be done with smart contracts.

Take for example the idea of not allowing secondary sales. You simply say that the ERC-20 token cannot be sent to any address other than the official ones you bought from. You can get a refund but that’s it. And just like that - no scalping!

Now if you want to maximize the amount for the venue, you do price discovery. You make a “bonding curve” (like an auction) whereby tickets in a section go up in price the more people buy them (or not — have whatever monotonically increasing curve you want). And people can get a refund if they return the ticket. You pay out after the concert, and take your cut, and all of it is guaranteed, with no middleman. You (the artist and the platform and the venue) keep the windfall.

No need to attract speculators who buy tickets and then expect to get a larger amount later.

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#110

Post by AlexandrB »

saaaaaam wrote: post #90
prmoustache wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of show sell $700 tickets? Does that include an escort?

Michael Rapino, the CEO of Live Nation regularly boasted about how for sports events people take pride in paying thousands of dollars for tickets near the front, and how he wishes it was the same for music. Live Nation had been engaging in a venue refit programme to make a higher percentage of venue seating - 40% or so - ‘premium’ seating where they can charge far higher rates. As someone in this thread pointed out t…

> It’s a catch 22: if you are a sports team and only sell $1000 tickets you might sell out the show but you alienate your core base who buy lots of other stuff like shirts and caps and beer.

That core base is also the taxpayers that fund your next stadium. If you get too greedy you'll be paying for it out of pocket.

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