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Should we drain the Everglades?

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Re: Should we drain the Everglades?

#101

Post by thepryz »

ux266478 wrote: post #35
pharrington wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm way more afraid of the humans that want to drain and eradicate the native population of the Everglades!

Even putting aside that it destroys incredible natural beauty for land that's not even productively useful, it astounds me that people still buy into major terraforming projects. Every single time it's had absolutely horrendous consequences often with millions of human deaths attached. Don't make large changes to chaotic systems!

I generally agree though I have to say I’ve been impressed by China’s efforts to reduce desertification. It’s not perfect, but they seem to have an evolving strategy and the right priorities.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scotttravers/2025/03/25/why-chi...

Re: Should we drain the Everglades?

#102

Post by hwc »

KingMob wrote: post #69
deadbabe wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“a few meters above sea level” is still not sea level. That’s a good 12-15 feet to work with.

Iirc, there are scientific estimates that Greenland's ice sheet alone would raise sea levels by 24 ft if it melted. 12-15 ft may really not be enough for very long.

My parents bought a house 11 feet above sea level. The right combination of high tides and storm surge could easily flood that any time. It hasn't happened yet, but the sea level could rise a foot or so in the next generation, making flooding more likely every year.

Re: Should we drain the Everglades?

#103

Post by NickC25 »

soperj wrote: post #33
SilverElfin wrote: post #24

One thing I don’t understand is why so many appreciate the Everglades. To me a landscape infested with aggressive animals (gators) doesn’t sound attractive or safe. Between them and the invasive snakes I feel like you would need to be on guard all the time. Maybe drain it, replace it with different animals that are friendly, and then refill it. I’m only sort of joking.

I feel the same way about Miami.

I live in SoFLA in the Miami metro area.

People can't stop building here. I don't get it. It's going to be under water in under 50 years. Yet for some reason there's a 100+ story building going up across from Bayfront Park and Ken Griffin is spending a billion on a massive tower in Brickell.

Re: Should we drain the Everglades?

#104

Post by hwc »

nicholasbraker wrote: post #85
hopelite wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that Holland does not have hurricanes. For context; only the hurricane we have a clear record of had 8.5 meter storm surges. I’m not sure, can the Dutch barriers hold that back?

The reason why we had something like the Delta works was due to a 12 Bft storm hitting our shores in 1953. This infrastructure is built to withstand these kind of storms and protect the land from flooding. The protections in place (movable doors in storm surge barriers etc.) are used a few times the last decades when storms did hit our shores. I don't know if this is useable in the Florida context. It's easy to say w…

Also, you need a place to build the dike. Look at a map of Miami, for example, and tell me where you want to build a dike. In front of Miami Beach? And how far does it go? All the way up the coast? There's 120 miles of continuous city on the Atlantic Coast. Also, the land is all very porous sand on top of porous coral. Even if you build a dike out of clay and concrete, water will still seep in from below. This is already happening at high tide.

Re: Should we drain the Everglades?

#105

Post by hollerith »

hwc wrote: post #104
nicholasbraker wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why we had something like the Delta works was due to a 12 Bft storm hitting our shores in 1953. This infrastructure is built to withstand these kind of storms and protect the land from flooding. The protections in place (movable doors in storm surge barriers etc.) are used a few times the last decades when storms did hit our shores. I don't know if this is useable in the Florida context. It's easy to say w…

Also, you need a place to build the dike. Look at a map of Miami, for example, and tell me where you want to build a dike. In front of Miami Beach? And how far does it go? All the way up the coast? There's 120 miles of continuous city on the Atlantic Coast. Also, the land is all very porous sand on top of porous coral. Even if you build a dike out of clay and concrete, water will still seep in from below. This is alr…

Usually low-lying areas protected by dikes also deploy large pumps to pump out water that does get in. My guess is that it would be cost prohibitive to keep on pumping the water back out of Miami in 2075, but that is just a guess. There are probably people who know for sure, and it would be nice to read what they have to say.

Re: Should we drain the Everglades?

#106

Post by hopelite »

hwc wrote: post #104
nicholasbraker wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why we had something like the Delta works was due to a 12 Bft storm hitting our shores in 1953. This infrastructure is built to withstand these kind of storms and protect the land from flooding. The protections in place (movable doors in storm surge barriers etc.) are used a few times the last decades when storms did hit our shores. I don't know if this is useable in the Florida context. It's easy to say w…

Also, you need a place to build the dike. Look at a map of Miami, for example, and tell me where you want to build a dike. In front of Miami Beach? And how far does it go? All the way up the coast? There's 120 miles of continuous city on the Atlantic Coast. Also, the land is all very porous sand on top of porous coral. Even if you build a dike out of clay and concrete, water will still seep in from below. This is alr…

Already happening at high ride? That is not a new phenomenon even though it is played up as as such.

Places like St Augustine, Fl or Alexandria, VA; and, although not a city, even Jamestown, Va all have records of regular flooding since their establishment centuries ago and well before the Industrial Revolution during strong king tides when you get a confluence of effects like the moon and the sun’s tidal forces amplifying each other, rains have swelled waterways and saturated ground, and the fact that they are situated and basically at water level. I’ve experienced it personally in a few places, ands considering that those places built a long time ago clearly have structures built to accommodate strong king tides is an indicator to me that they knew it happens every once and a while even before the Industrial Revolution.

Re: Should we drain the Everglades?

#107

Post by Scarblac »

nlitened wrote: post #84
rexpop wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The perspective that nature, including the Everglades, should be "attractive or safe" for human convenience is profoundly misguided and chauvinistic. Nature does not exist for humanity's comfort or aesthetic preferences—its value and purpose are independent of human desires or perceptions. The Everglades is a complex, irreplaceable ecosystem essential for biodiversity, climate regulation, water filtration, and flood…

> Nature does not exist for humanity's comfort or aesthetic preferences To be fair, in most religions (including christianity and atheism) it kinda does

Atheism isn't a religion and as an atheist I find that an offensive statement.

Nature existed before we did and will exist after us, it can't be true that it exists for us.

Re: Should we drain the Everglades?

#108

Post by ecocentrik »

tomcam wrote: post #79
ecocentrik wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we really want to introduce more invasive species into the Everglades?

Whatever the karma is on this, it should be double

The python hunters of Florida do all the heavy lifting for this joke.

If you're not aware, python hunting is a state funded industry with the stated goal of controlling the spread of the invasive species in the Everglades. It has done very little to slow the growth of the python population in Florida but has created a demand for new roads and service buildings. Most python hunters farm overflow areas near roads, canals and flood gates, avoiding nests.

Re: Should we drain the Everglades?

#109

Post by nlitened »

Scarblac wrote: post #107
nlitened wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nature does not exist for humanity's comfort or aesthetic preferences To be fair, in most religions (including christianity and atheism) it kinda does

Atheism isn't a religion and as an atheist I find that an offensive statement. Nature existed before we did and will exist after us, it can't be true that it exists for us.

> it can't be true that it exists for us

You're saying it as if you assume some external entity judging whether something exists for somebody or not.

As an atheist you would acknowledge that the entire concept of "existing for something/somebody" is entirely a construct of human mind, which human mentally applies to the observable universe around them. So for an atheistic human mind, everything exists for human, as there's nobody else to exist for.

Re: Should we drain the Everglades?

#110

Post by epiccoleman »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #100
JohnDeHope wrote: post #2

As a Pasco county alumni, I think we should drop the people who want to drain the everglades off in the everglades and leave them in there until they gain an appreciation for the scenery.

Not sure is that would work, as @fishinggarrett will yoink them for being an invasive species.

oh man, thanks for the pointer to that guy. my oldest son will absolutely love him.
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