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Denmark close to wiping out cancer-causing HPV strains after vaccine roll-out

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Re: Denmark close to wiping out cancer-causing HPV strains after vaccine roll-out

#101
post #97
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there a net positive benefit to this shot? Yes https://ourworldindata.org/hpv-vaccination-world-can-elimina...

Doesn't answer the question. Other vaccines, for example DTP, have been shown to cause higher long term mortality rate over those who didn't get it. https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/2/3/e000707

> Other vaccines, for example DTP, have been shown to cause higher long term mortality rate

Sure. This one hasn’t.

That said, I frankly think people should be free to vaccinate as they please, and cities, states and private businesses free to include and exclude folks based on vaccination status as they please. (I’m also in favor of letting insurance companies choose if they want to cover diseases someone chose to get by going unvaccinated.)

Re: Denmark close to wiping out cancer-causing HPV strains after vaccine roll-out

#102

[flagged]

There are people who will do the right thing, there will be people who you can teach to do the right thing, and there will be people who will ignore you no matter what. Optimize for the first two. "Pick better parents" is unfortunately unactionable advice. Australia has almost eradicated cervical cancer through HPV vaccination efforts, other countries will get there as a function of uptake and cohort replacement. The…

Shaming the current administration and pointing out their lies until we are out of breath is still a worthwhile endeavor. In this age of social media a good gotcha that goes viral can tank an election. With the midterms coming up in a year I’m hopeful.

Re: Denmark close to wiping out cancer-causing HPV strains after vaccine roll-out

#103
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those organizations didn't have instantaneous global reach. Now everyone does.

I'm not denying that there's a difference - obviously technology has enabled the scale of things to grow quite a bit, both good and bad - but it's beside my point, which is that, given that it's not a new phenomenon, blaming it on technology seems doomed to failure. Without solving for the underlying issues, people will continue to mistrust authority, whether they're being told to by news or their neighbor.

People have had a mistrust in authority as far back as when nomadic tribes were the norm but somebody had to decide where to hunt or gather that day or to move on. Good luck changing human nature.

Re: Denmark close to wiping out cancer-causing HPV strains after vaccine roll-out

#104

Good news. Bad news is that many countries came close to wiping out measles et al. too, but it takes sustained effort to keep things like that.

Amazing how badly the United States is regressing. Literally measles is making a comeback due to idiots like RFK.

Maybe we’re seeing selection pressure against those prone to addictive cycles of social-media influenced misinformation?

Like, anti-vaxers died at higher rates in Covid [1]. This will continue across disease outbreaks, particularly ones for which we have near-comprehensive vaccines like measles. And given antivax sensibility is heritable (through parenting, not genes), one would expect this to stabilize the population over several generations to one that doesn’t have this defect.

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10123459/

Re: Denmark close to wiping out cancer-causing HPV strains after vaccine roll-out

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people existed, but a portable always-running conveyor belt of bad news that is addictive enough to make them glued to the screen did not. In the 1990s, you had maybe 15 minutes a day on average to consume news, either from a paper newspaper, or from an evening TV relation. Now, quite a lot of people spend 20 times as much time doomscrolling. Of course the impact will be much more massive.

Back then we had the National Enquirer and Weekly World News and similar for all the obscure conspiracy news you wanted.

I think that the social media is much more capable of turning various fence sitters and borderline cases into full blown conspiracy believers.

Unlike the paper products, which just lie around when not actively seeked for, the algorithms determining your feed have a lot more agency.

Re: Denmark close to wiping out cancer-causing HPV strains after vaccine roll-out

#107
post #18

If you're living in the US: please consider getting the vaccine, ragardless of your age. It was covered by my (rather shitty) health insurance. It consists of just 2 (EDIT: 3 for adults!) doses. It is recommended for both Males and Females.

If you’re not sexually active, is it still worth doing?

Yes. While direct genital contact is the highest probability way to spread it, any skin-skin, skin-mucosa, skin-object-skin contact can potentially spread it. Consider how much you trust others to wash their hands after using the restroom. Low probability, but possible.

You’ve got a low probability of getting polio, but there’s no reason not to be vaccinated if you can.

Even if you already have a strain, there are multiple types. In fact, people who got a vaccine early on, should consider an updated shot for more complete protection.

Re: Denmark close to wiping out cancer-causing HPV strains after vaccine roll-out

#108
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Potentially, yes. HPV infections are cleared over time, and there are many strains of HPV.

That's really interesting, and from that I would assume that the risk of cervical (or other cancers) from HPV is associated with how often someone is reinfected? ie, someone who got HPV once in college doesn't have HPV their whole life? And potentially has a lower cancer risk than someone who is repeatedly re-infected? Am I understanding that correctly?

https://www.hpvworld.com/articles/the-frequency-of-hpv-infec...

It's incredibly prevalent, but most people clear it within a couple years, and won't even know that they had it. The time to clear it is just variable and depends on your body's immune response, the longer you go without clearing it the higher the cancer risk.

Re: Denmark close to wiping out cancer-causing HPV strains after vaccine roll-out

#109
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those organizations didn't have instantaneous global reach. Now everyone does.

I'm not denying that there's a difference - obviously technology has enabled the scale of things to grow quite a bit, both good and bad - but it's beside my point, which is that, given that it's not a new phenomenon, blaming it on technology seems doomed to failure. Without solving for the underlying issues, people will continue to mistrust authority, whether they're being told to by news or their neighbor.

That's a little like saying nuclear bombs aren't a technology, but a human problem. And you bet, they sure are, but it's a lot harder to wipe out everyone, if the nutjobs in your community just have a pointed stick.

And 'nutjobs' may be pejorative, but I'll hold on to it as apt. At the same time I assign no blame, for it is an issue of cognition. The best way I can describe it is, intelligence is not a single factor. And it's not even a few factors. It's a massive bar graph, with 1000s upon 1000s of bars, each delineating a different aspect of intelligence.

A lucky few may score high on all those bars, yet even the most intelligent of us tend to score high on only some of those bars. And my point is, I've seen people immensely intelligent on some of those bars, yet astonishingly deficient on others.

We love to make fun of politicians, so I'll use one as an example here. Politicians tend to be incredibly personable, and very difficult to dislike in person. They exude congeniality, they read you like a book, and can often orate your wallet completely out of your pocket, and you'll thank them for it too. It's how they managed to go so far politically, yet some of these same politicians have severe and massive deficiencies in cognition.

Back to the pointed sticks, and the nutjobs who would wield them pre-tech, these people are simply as they are. Yet in the past, you'd see one nutjob in a community, and they'd be surrounded by normalcy, it would temper them, mitigate their effect, sand off their edges so to speak.

Yet as our communities grew in size and scope, these individuals could finally meet more of their ilk. A large city might have dozens of them, larger still cities hundreds, and they'd meet up. And as technology grew, and access to the printing press become possible for all, and for less and less cost, these same people could then send their madness in newsletter form to even those small communities where maybe only one nutjob existed.

But those people needed to still connect in some way. Maybe through an ad in the back of a magazine, or something akin yet far less gated by 'normals'.

Yet today? Now? Algorithms match you up with all those nutjobs. Where before you might live in isolation, and the friends you had might scoff at that weird idea you have, now you've found a community of hundreds, or thousands just like you! And they all affirm your madness, they pat you on the back, they congratulate you for seeing the light! They whisper all those sweet nothings into your ear, all those secret things you knew were true, and they listen to all you say on the subject.

For the first time in your life you have a home, a community, and before TikTok, or some weird forum, it would have never all been possible. You'd have been isolated, even in the age of magazines, and print, for you'd have never found one another.

And worse, now profit enters the system. Those who would steal, or thieve, or build bridges with sub-standard concrete for profit, or anything for money regardless of cost to us all, appear on this scene. They see those nutjobs, and they seek to profit from them. They own youtube, or tiktok channels, and often do not believe in anything but profit. They'll tell you anything you want to hear, espouse any crazy idea, and like that bridge built with substandard concrete, they'll take the money and run as society collapses around them.

This profit motive was always there, see cults. Yet the reach and scope was just not what it is today, there is so much more range given to a single person now.

Re: Denmark close to wiping out cancer-causing HPV strains after vaccine roll-out

#110
post #82

[flagged]

1. There's still overall fewer infections from high risk HPV types in these women.

2. It needs to be confirmed in ~10 years, but it seems very likely that women given the shots that protect against all high risk HPV types will see almost no infections from them.

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