Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Java 25 officially released

mail.openjdk.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 260 posts

Re: Java 25 officially released

#101

Post by stronglikedan »

samus wrote: post #88
Foomf wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle makes me too uneasy. Can I use Java without the worry of incurring Oracle's wrath? Maybe, if I make sure I use openjdk/jump through some hoops I'll be fine. Or, I could just use any other language and not have that worry looming over me. C# is right there if I want a java-like experience without the anxiety of Oracle breaking my kneecaps. I don't know how to use java and not violate one of Oracle's EULAs. I co…

Just use OpenJDK (only downside is you have to upgrade every half year) or a distribution of another vendor (most people use Eclipse, or Red Hat if they already are Red Hats customers). It's really not as difficult as it is made out to be. If you use Oracle's distribution of the JDK then you are an enterprise customer and should have the resources to deal with their license terms.

All that just seems like friction when there are frictionless alternatives available. Life's too short for friction.

Re: Java 25 officially released

#102

Post by ameliaquining »

whartung wrote: post #32
ameliaquining wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Swing good now? Usually when people say Java is good now I assume they're not talking about Swing.

Swing is swing, it's as good as it's always been (eye of the beholder). As I understand it, it hasn't completely rotted on the shelf, they've made updates to the rendering to better leverage modern hardware, but it's not a modern toolkit by any means. But it is maintained, it still works. JavaFX is good (I really like FX), and maintained, and portable. They just came out with 25 I think. But it's a completely differe…

Sure, but the same might be said of the subset of Java that existed twenty years ago; this is different from what people mean when they say "Java's good now".

Re: Java 25 officially released

#103

Post by munksbeer »

Foomf wrote: post #99
samus wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use OpenJDK (only downside is you have to upgrade every half year) or a distribution of another vendor (most people use Eclipse, or Red Hat if they already are Red Hats customers). It's really not as difficult as it is made out to be. If you use Oracle's distribution of the JDK then you are an enterprise customer and should have the resources to deal with their license terms.

"Am I using the correct language runtime distribution (or version thereof) so I don't get into legal trouble?" Is a question none of Java's competitors have to ask. Even using OpenJDK is a sword of damocles waiting to fall. If I forget to update OpenJDK, Oracle could come after me. It's just risk that I don't have to worry about by choosing not to go with Java. It's probably not a lot of risk, but it's risk nonethele…

>Even using OpenJDK is a sword of damocles waiting to fall.

No, it really isn't. Honestly, people seem to go to great lengths of talking nonsense to discredit Java. There are many reasons to not like a language, and that is absolutely fine. But there is no point talking nonsense about it when you could just... not use it.

Re: Java 25 officially released

#104

Post by Quekid5 »

Foomf wrote: post #99
samus wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use OpenJDK (only downside is you have to upgrade every half year) or a distribution of another vendor (most people use Eclipse, or Red Hat if they already are Red Hats customers). It's really not as difficult as it is made out to be. If you use Oracle's distribution of the JDK then you are an enterprise customer and should have the resources to deal with their license terms.

"Am I using the correct language runtime distribution (or version thereof) so I don't get into legal trouble?" Is a question none of Java's competitors have to ask. Even using OpenJDK is a sword of damocles waiting to fall. If I forget to update OpenJDK, Oracle could come after me. It's just risk that I don't have to worry about by choosing not to go with Java. It's probably not a lot of risk, but it's risk nonethele…

What, exactly, are the JVM's competitors (not Java, btw)? You can always use Kotlin or Scala if they take your fancy. They both interop fantastically with 20+ years of the Java ecosystem.

EDIT: The only remotely competitive ecosystem is JS/TS (because billions of pre-installs) and C#.

> Even using OpenJDK is a sword of damocles waiting to fall. If I forget to update OpenJDK, Oracle could come after me. It's just risk that I don't have to worry about by choosing not to go with Java. It's probably not a lot of risk, but it's risk nonetheless that doesn't exist with Java's competitors.

This is absurd hyperbole.

Re: Java 25 officially released

#105

Post by Quekid5 »

stronglikedan wrote: post #101
samus wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use OpenJDK (only downside is you have to upgrade every half year) or a distribution of another vendor (most people use Eclipse, or Red Hat if they already are Red Hats customers). It's really not as difficult as it is made out to be. If you use Oracle's distribution of the JDK then you are an enterprise customer and should have the resources to deal with their license terms.

All that just seems like friction when there are frictionless alternatives available. Life's too short for friction.

You usually have to explictly opt-in to installing an Oracle JDK because... you know, they have a license agreement that you must agree to.

So there's no friction, everyone uses the OSS ones unless you have very specific needs.

Re: Java 25 officially released

#106

Post by Decabytes »

lukev wrote: post #39

More new programs should be written in Java/on the JVM. Most of the reasons Java dropped out of popularity no longer apply, and at this point it is an incredibly stable and mature ecosystem. I can come back to a Clojure program I wrote ten years ago and it runs great , meanwhile a TypeScript program I write 6 months ago requires a bunch of updating and cleanup.

My biggest Issue with Java, is that it isn't streamlined. There are multiple implementations of the jdk that could be used, Many different build systems, etc. The C# ecosystem is smaller for sure, but it is much more streamlined

Re: Java 25 officially released

#107

Post by Quekid5 »

Noe2097 wrote: post #90
cgh wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java is hugely popular and widely used on large backend systems. I guess a lot of people here don't work on such systems? I'm always surprised when I see comments like the parent, since in my career exposure to Java is near-ubiquitous.

There has been a move in the past 8 years away from Java on the back end, notably to Go, by several large engineering organizations, which made the move, "motivated" by the example of companies like Google or by projects like Kubernetes, and seduced by the promises of a language simple to learn, build, and deploy.

Go is slowly becoming Java 1.5+ -- see the addition of generics.

Btw, you can AOT compile Java if you wish... it'll probably be a larger binary than a Go binary, but that's whatever...

[Meta] ... God, I'm turning in pjlmp here, lol

Re: Java 25 officially released

#108

Post by vips7L »

p2detar wrote: post #98
vips7L wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already doing the work to move my team to 25 and it's been out for a day.

I'm doing that in 2 weeks. The next major version of our product will require 25. edit: I wrote "require" when I meant "ship with". We ship a Temurin JRE together with our product, so it's being updated with each new installation.

Nice! It really isn’t hard to stay on top of it imo. The only thing stopping anyone from upgrading is their own company culture at this point.

Re: Java 25 officially released

#109

Post by bob1029 »

miki123211 wrote: post #30

(not a Java developer, no dog in this fight) I'm not sure I like the module import system very much. I think `import *`-like constructions make code a bit easier to write, but much harder to read, especially for developers new to the language / codebase. C# and Nim love that style, and it makes them almost unreadable without a good IDE. Personally, I much prefer Python's "short aliases" style, e.g. `import torch.nn.f…

> C# and Nim love that style, and it makes them almost unreadable without a good IDE.

I think a lot of what turns people off to the C# developer experience is not using full-blown Visual Studio. VSCode is great but I would never open csproj or sln files using it unless I needed to manually edit their actual XML contents.

It's not broadly advertised that you can buy a perpetual & fully licensed copy for $500 [0]. No subscription or other cloudy scam stuff is required, although Microsoft's product pages will initially lead you to believe it is.

[0] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/visual-studio-professional...

Re: Java 25 officially released

#110

Post by cbm-vic-20 »

Foomf wrote: post #99
samus wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use OpenJDK (only downside is you have to upgrade every half year) or a distribution of another vendor (most people use Eclipse, or Red Hat if they already are Red Hats customers). It's really not as difficult as it is made out to be. If you use Oracle's distribution of the JDK then you are an enterprise customer and should have the resources to deal with their license terms.

"Am I using the correct language runtime distribution (or version thereof) so I don't get into legal trouble?" Is a question none of Java's competitors have to ask. Even using OpenJDK is a sword of damocles waiting to fall. If I forget to update OpenJDK, Oracle could come after me. It's just risk that I don't have to worry about by choosing not to go with Java. It's probably not a lot of risk, but it's risk nonethele…

> If I forget to update OpenJDK, Oracle could come after me

I must have missed that section of the GPLv2.

Oracle does distribute a different (not OpenJDK) Java distribution under a special not-open-source no-cost license, which includes a stipulation that you can't use updates after the next LTS release. This only adds to the confusion: you really only need Oracle's special distribution if you want paid Oracle support for it or their stuff that requires it.

Post reply on HN