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React is winning by default and slowing innovation

lorenstew.art

101–110 of 866 posts

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#101
There is always a "better" thing. I do think that it is fine to have a bit of stability in the frontend space. Should react stay the default for the future, probably not, but it is fine if it stays that way for a while.

React is a good enough choice for a lot of problems, heck, going without a framework is often a good enough choice, we don't always have to choose the "best" option, because what we value might not actually be that important, over other important metrics. Signals might have performance, elm elegance and purity, etc, etc. But for 95% problems, and teams React is just fine.

A bonus is that I can come back to my project in a year, and not have to rewrite it because everything changed since then.

In Danish we say

> Stop mens legen er god

Stop, while you're still going strong (ish). React is plenty equipped to solve a lot of problems, it doesn't need to solve all of them.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#102
React is winning because its really good. Even if the cost is an extra few milliseconds of render time and few extra hours of dev time figuring out things like hook dependencies.

If React starts taking a backseat, it'll be because its no longer really good. And, to be fair: I've started to see this happen. Next & Vercel have totally taken over the React world, and they've proven to make quite poor architectural decisions. All great empires are destroyed from the inside, not out, and I think its possible Vercel could do this to React. But, also, even as Next seppukus itself, people will likely just fall back to React on Vite (or, there's Remix 3 that's I think still under development, but might end up being big).

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#103
post #83

The javascript people should stop innovating for a couple of years. To much innovation that lead nowhere. How many ways can one build a web javascript project? Browser people should pick up slack and start developing sane components for the web. How about a backend-supporting combobox, or a standardized date picker across browsers? Then we wouldn't need to constantly innovate how we manage the state of those fundamen…

I think part of the problem is that browsers don't really serve their original purpose anymore. Google functionally controls just enough of a monopoly via chrome that they can generally do whatever they want (and not do whatever they don't want to do). So that standards still mostly can't do anything google isn't enthusiastic about dumping dev time into. And they're just barely not enough of a monopoly that they can'…

> there are strong technical forces that want the browser to finally finish morphing from a document viewer to an application runtime

I really hope that never happens if only because the web dev on ramp will discourage anyone without preexisting technical chops.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#104
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

React is great at solving complex problems. Not all problems are complex to begin with, and having a complex tool as default otherwise adds complexity to the project and also inflexibility to iterate quickly. This is in addition to having to maintain a relatively brittle ecosystem from past feature as well as future features but that can be true for more than one area of JavaScript or other technologies. Looking for…

And the moment you need to increase complexity in your app, you need to add back react.

Maybe, maybe not. It's not the only sponge, unless it's the only sponge I know.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#105

> Hooks addressed class component pain but introduced new kinds of complexity: dependency arrays, stale closures, and misused effects. Even React’s own docs emphasize restraint: “You Might Not Need an Effect”. Server Components improve time-to-first-byte, but add architectural complexity and new failure modes. There are a lot of valid criticisms of React, but I don't think this is one of them. These problems are not…

Prop testing with fast-check helps alot I've found for when little things change

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#106

IIRC it was quite a fight for react, it wasn’t a slam dunk out of the gate.

Was there? By 2016 it felt like nearly 80% of frontend development was happening in react. Even startups in central FL in 2015 were all in on react then. That's barely 4ish years from first introduction. That's quite fast in software adoption.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#107
realistically i've worked at very few companies whose delivery is held back meaningfully by the framework something is built in.

when there's friction, it's much more likely to come from poor planning, or constantly adding more functionality without stopping to reconsider architecture, or one of a thousand more organizational issues.

the innovation delivered by basically anyone working in software is extremely rarely a function of the tools they use to build the software, and many extremely successful products effectively started as CRUD apps, just organized in a way that really served a specific use case well.

the stuff i recall that truly transformed the way i've experienced the web - (what was at the time) AJAX, webGL, the canvas tag, websockets - tend to be shipped in the browser, and function equally well in basically any framework. i don't really think that i can point to a single new framework that truly changed the way i experience the web meaningfully.

react is probably the closest i can recall, but primarily because it was the one that caught on and made building really rich SPAs fashionable after the long slushy period of knockout and angular and backbone and handlebars and the thousand other disparate things cobbled together by every company. it catching on and taking over most of the industry meant people could move between jobs easier, contribute more quickly, and take easier advantage of countless libraries because they were either natively made for react or there was plenty of documentation and support for integrating them.

having that broad a universe of support might actually be a main source of innovation, when you think about it. having it be effortless to integrate basically anything in the js universe into your project because it's well-documented and has been done a thousand times means you can focus more easily on the unique parts of your project.

i'm definitely a little jaded, and 20ish years into my career i'm more business-minded than i was when i started, but i struggle to imagine a framework so profoundly and uniquely enabling of new things, that would have such a meaningful impact on my bottom line, that i would choose it and the trouble of hiring experienced engineers comfortable with it (or training new ones) when i could just bring on literally anyone in the entire industry, because basically all front-end devs are comfortable in react.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#109
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN has a button exactly for that!

Enh. That button is often used for "your post gives me bad feelings" but it's supposed to be for "your post is bad for the community"

Go read pg’s comments on downvoting. HN has always been fine with using downvotes to signify disagreement.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#110
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading through the example, it seems like it doesn't do reactivity, as the user code must call render() manually on state changes. Did I miss something?

No, that's correct. I did it that way deliberately as a design choice. Is that not still considered reactivity? If so then I'll update the docs.

I'm definitely not the authority on the definition of that word, but in my view I expect reactivity to mean that the UI reacts to state changes "automatically".
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