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The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

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Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#101

Post by wpietri »

kiallmacinnes wrote: post #39
X-Istence wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the case for older legacy networks. Those don't fall under the purview of RIPE as they were allocated before RIPE existed. I'm wondering if RIPE can even do anything regarding that netblock in terms of possibly pulling it and re-allocating it.

As far as I know, they can't. All they can do (and have already done) is ask nicely for it back.

Well, if they were feeling ballsy, they could just declare it unused, break it up, and start assigning it. A lot more network nerds would listen to RIPE than to some random UK pension bureaucracy.

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#102

Post by wmf »

bo1024 wrote: post #96
pash wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an embarrassing failure of economic reasoning. IPv4 addresses are a scare resource. Acknowledging that, and allowing them to be traded at a price that reflects their value, is the surest way to get them out of the hands of those who are wasting them in the way tptacek and the article describe and into the hands of those who will do something more productive with them. Pricing IPv4 addresses would hasten adoption…

> What an embarrassing failure of economic reasoning. 1. IPv4 addresses are overdemanded and undersupplied. 2. IPv6 addresses are practically limitless and will serve the same purpose once we switch over. 3. We should switch to IPv6 ASAP. Where's the economic flaw? (Also, it should be pointed out that allowing trades on IPv4 would not decrease availability, it would only increase it: Right now, you can't switch the o…

BTW, address trading does exist.

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#103

Post by jrockway »

geofft wrote: post #86
jrockway wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because HN is IPv4-only. I'm sitting in a remote office on my laptop this morning, and it has an IPv6 address. When I visit google.com, it's over IPv6. It's happening.

Why is HN IPv4-only? And why should they bother to spend any effort fixing it? Given that, e.g., techcrunch.com and github.com and everything else linked from HN is IPv4-only, you can't usefully use Hacker News from an IPv6-only connection, so why should HN care? You're expecting altruism or geekiness on the part of every single website ever -- it's fair to expect that from Google, but not from everyone. The transiti…

No I'm not, I'm expecting anti-altruism from low-cost ISPs. (Name one consumer ISP that you think is altruistic.) Then, to capture that market, servers will start deploying IPv6.

Today, IPv6 is billed as a premium feature. Tomorrow, IPv4 will be the premium feature.

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#104

Post by rdl »

wmf wrote: post #102
bo1024 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What an embarrassing failure of economic reasoning. 1. IPv4 addresses are overdemanded and undersupplied. 2. IPv6 addresses are practically limitless and will serve the same purpose once we switch over. 3. We should switch to IPv6 ASAP. Where's the economic flaw? (Also, it should be pointed out that allowing trades on IPv4 would not decrease availability, it would only increase it: Right now, you can't switch the o…

BTW, address trading does exist.

There is usually a little more indirection, like buying a fuckedcompany with a /16.

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#105

Post by rdl »

eli wrote: post #61
pash wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an embarrassing failure of economic reasoning. IPv4 addresses are a scare resource. Acknowledging that, and allowing them to be traded at a price that reflects their value, is the surest way to get them out of the hands of those who are wasting them in the way tptacek and the article describe and into the hands of those who will do something more productive with them. Pricing IPv4 addresses would hasten adoption…

But (and someone correct me if I'm wrong), but individual IP addresses are not a commodity. If you broke apart that /8 and auctioned them off, if would be a routing nightmare.

Are there any /8 which can't be broken down to at least /16? I think you can often get down to /19 or sometimes /22.

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#106

Post by rdl »

geofft wrote: post #86
jrockway wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because HN is IPv4-only. I'm sitting in a remote office on my laptop this morning, and it has an IPv6 address. When I visit google.com, it's over IPv6. It's happening.

Why is HN IPv4-only? And why should they bother to spend any effort fixing it? Given that, e.g., techcrunch.com and github.com and everything else linked from HN is IPv4-only, you can't usefully use Hacker News from an IPv6-only connection, so why should HN care? You're expecting altruism or geekiness on the part of every single website ever -- it's fair to expect that from Google, but not from everyone. The transiti…

I think for the same reason HN doesn't do DNSSEC or HSTS -- pg isn't a full-time sysadmin.

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#107

Post by wmf »

rdl wrote: post #104
wmf wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW, address trading does exist.

There is usually a little more indirection, like buying a fuckedcompany with a /16.

Not any more. Within the ARIN region it's legal to straight-up sell addresses as long as the buyer is actually going to use them (people argue about this point a lot but it doesn't seem like a big deal IMO).

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#108

Post by rdl »

Dave_Rosenthal wrote: post #62
mayneack wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At MIT a 30 person living group gets 18.n.x.x

As an 18.205.x.x alum, I can confirm this incredible fact.

18.209.0.1 is still my default test IP (it was our internal router interface at Fenway, but it also is a reasonable remote test IP). Heh.

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#109

Post by rdl »

wmf wrote: post #107
rdl wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is usually a little more indirection, like buying a fuckedcompany with a /16.

Not any more. Within the ARIN region it's legal to straight-up sell addresses as long as the buyer is actually going to use them (people argue about this point a lot but it doesn't seem like a big deal IMO).

Where is this done now? I would be happy to pick up a /16 for a project.

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#110

Post by toyg »

CrLf wrote: post #3

No traces of this block in the public Internet doesn't mean it isn't being used. It may be in use in some internal network(s) instead of a private address range (yes, that happens).

This. From a comment on the page:

"The 51.* addresses are in fact heavily used by DWP, but only internally. The best bit is this: for security reasons, there is a policy that in any communication, the leading octet of all such IP addresses must be redacted. Not like it's a matter of public record or anything. I did once toy with the idea of printing out the XKCD map of the IP4 address space, write "you are here" on it and pin it to the wall near DWP data networks teams, but I didn't think it would go down well."

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