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Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

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101–110 of 183 posts

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#101
post #15

The lesson here is clear, corporations won't do anything that's good for the ecology and survivability of our species unless forced.

If only we could remind them somehow that inevitable migration, famine, and mass death is not as profitable as alternatives.

The Vatican has survived all that including the fall of countless nations and empires. Guess how they did it?

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cap and trade is a perfectly sound strategy for reducing carbon emissions, and carbon offsets are valid part of the 'trade.' There's the potential for fraud, but fraud can happen anywhere and there's nothing special about carbon offsets that makes them entirely fraudulent. The market and regulators have already been accounting for this through third party verification. Now, if you are a fossil fuel megacorp and want…

> there's nothing special about carbon offsets that makes them entirely fraudulent The problem is that what gets exchanged in the marked is a certificate but the purpose of the market is to create a positive externality. This means the buyers and sellers don't have an inventive to be honest. The buyer of the carbon credits doesn't actually need the carbon to be captured. They just want a certificate for X credits, so…

This. Both parties in the market are in on the same scam to fool the end customer and shareholders

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#104
post #19

I think there's less to this than meets the eye. Previously, on https://sustainability.google/operating-sustainably/ : "We've set a goal to achieve net-zero emissions across all of our operations and value chain by 2030." and, in a table later, "Reduce 50% of our combined Scope 1, 2 (market-based), and 3 absolute emissions by 2030. Invest in nature-based and technology-based carbon removal solutions to neutralize our…

carbon-free energy on every grid where they operate also sounds like a significantly more ambitious goal than net-zero across the company, because it means actual reduction in emissions, rather than relying on offsets. if it's a serious committment to being carbon-free, i think this sounds like a positive change. if it's a moonshot that they have no real intention of actually meeting, then it's a lot less impressive.…

What’s the real difference? Don’t offsets also do the same thing?

If I emit 5g of CO2 but purchase similar in offsets - the offsets have to achieve a reduction of 5g unless something like a scam is going on.

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should just pave the mojave with solar panels. Nearly no one lives there and no one wants to live there and it is dead center to western states. If China can pave mountains, a little desert with caliche should be easy

As a rule, if you're tempted to begin any sentence with "they should just..." -- don't. Electrical signal attenuation increases with the square of the distance, so you'll lose ~95% of the power to heat loss in the wires if you try to power Seattle from solar in Nevada -- not very eco-friendly, you'd agree? Also the extreme heat destroys solar panels. Also, dust. Also the permitting of stuff across state lines is so t…

> Electrical signal attenuation increases with the square of the distance

Power transmission lines at 60Hz primarily have ohmic losses, which are linear with length of the conductor.

Interesting fact - Power transmission lines are long enough that the capacitive and inductive effects do matter a little bit, even though it's only 60Hz. That's why spacing between conductors is important. 3-phase lines will also rotate the order of conductors every so often to keep the average spacing between all pairs of lines similar.

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would want to? Solar power is cheaper than any alternative, so long as you’re allowed to use it.

Solar power is much more expensive if the power must adhere to some number of 9's of reliability. Often data centers need to run at three nines of availability (ie: 99.9) and at that level of availability the price of solar power is many multiples of conventional power due to the cost of batteries and over provisioning.

this is not true. solar+battery+natural gas backup is cheaper than any other form of power by a lot.

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#107

[flagged]

I don't think they started that way. Most companies start with lofty idealistic goals that motivate them to reach financial self sustainability. However from that point of time, any company is at risk of being taken over by people whose only motivation is wealth. They crossed that landmark a long time ago.

Not a week goes by without another news of one of their latest transgressions. At this point, news like this isn't a sign of something worsening over there. It's just them carrying on with their mission to subvert each safeguard in the pursuit of that little bit extra profit.

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should just pave the mojave with solar panels. Nearly no one lives there and no one wants to live there and it is dead center to western states. If China can pave mountains, a little desert with caliche should be easy

As a rule, if you're tempted to begin any sentence with "they should just..." -- don't. Electrical signal attenuation increases with the square of the distance, so you'll lose ~95% of the power to heat loss in the wires if you try to power Seattle from solar in Nevada -- not very eco-friendly, you'd agree? Also the extreme heat destroys solar panels. Also, dust. Also the permitting of stuff across state lines is so t…

I think you're over estimating losses for high voltage transmission lines. It's "only" 800 miles from the Mojave to seattle. In China there is a high voltage transmission line over 2000 miles long

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

carbon-free energy on every grid where they operate also sounds like a significantly more ambitious goal than net-zero across the company, because it means actual reduction in emissions, rather than relying on offsets. if it's a serious committment to being carbon-free, i think this sounds like a positive change. if it's a moonshot that they have no real intention of actually meeting, then it's a lot less impressive.…

What’s the real difference? Don’t offsets also do the same thing? If I emit 5g of CO2 but purchase similar in offsets - the offsets have to achieve a reduction of 5g unless something like a scam is going on.

Some of these offsets are of dubious quality. E.g., I think some of these offsets are from _not_ doing something that you might have otherwise done, but maybe you wouldn't have done that thing regardless.

Re: Google deletes net-zero pledge from sustainability website

#110
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could "remind them" by passing laws that made them pay for externalities.

Like, uniquely among all other industries? You don't think the petrochemical industry, for example, needs to pay for its larger externalities?

I think pretty much all industries could be paying more taxes.
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