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The car is not the future: On the myth of motorized freedom

blog.scaramuzza.me

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Re: The car is not the future: On the myth of motorized freedom

#101
post #15
post #3

It's interesting how people's positions can be so different. As a European who has lived in two (european) countries with good and affordable transport, I've always been a happy public transport user... until a couple of years ago, that is. Much of the transport is now filled with unpleasant people, dirt, delays, etc which paired with the insane prices of housing in the "walkable" parts of cities, has made me 100% in…

European countries only have good and affordable transport in the first and second tier cities. I usually spend a few weeks per year in Europe, often in smaller cities or rural areas, and the only public transport you'll find is some occasional bus service at inconvenient times. In those places everyone drives everywhere. Or they just sit around and home and don't go anywhere.

Even in the first tier cities there is usually significant personal car ownership, often with more than half of households owning one.

Is that because many people find even first tier city public transit inadequate for much of their normal in-city transport, or are there a lot of people living in the first tier cities who need to visit the smaller cities or rural areas often enough that it is worth keeping a car just for those occasions?

Re: The car is not the future: On the myth of motorized freedom

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see bandits with Toyota trucks in Africa, but no bandits on bicycles in the Netherlands. What you're describing is entirely orthogonal to modes of travel.

It is not orthogonal to modes of travel. A person in a car is much less vulnerable to attack than a person on foot, on a bicycle, etc. Also it's funny that you pick a low trust country and a high trust country to confound the issue. To be clear, the vulnerability is roughly the same no matter where you are located. The frequency of crime is a separate issue, and one that evolves according to opportunity. If more peop…

I'm not really confounding the issue. Banditry is entirely a function of social trust and how well the state maintains its monopoly on the use of violence. It's not a question of having armed escorts, bulletproof glass, a sidearm, a kevlar vest, and a faster transport than the bandits.

In a lower trust country, cars are the preferred target of bandit attack. Check out Russian dashcam videos to see how it's done.

And when push comes to shove, a good bandit worth their salt will disable cars in the wilderness by using spike strips.

Re: The car is not the future: On the myth of motorized freedom

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not orthogonal to modes of travel. A person in a car is much less vulnerable to attack than a person on foot, on a bicycle, etc. Also it's funny that you pick a low trust country and a high trust country to confound the issue. To be clear, the vulnerability is roughly the same no matter where you are located. The frequency of crime is a separate issue, and one that evolves according to opportunity. If more peop…

I'm not really confounding the issue. Banditry is entirely a function of social trust and how well the state maintains its monopoly on the use of violence. It's not a question of having armed escorts, bulletproof glass, a sidearm, a kevlar vest, and a faster transport than the bandits. In a lower trust country, cars are the preferred target of bandit attack. Check out Russian dashcam videos to see how it's done. And…

>Banditry is entirely a function of social trust and how well the state maintains its monopoly on the use of violence.

The fact you claim that opportunity does not matter shows that you don't understand the issue. No state on the planet is able to 100% guarantee your safety. Choosing to make yourself more vulnerable by traveling on foot is asking for trouble.

>In a lower trust country, cars are the preferred target of bandit attack. Check out Russian dashcam videos to see how it's done.

Cars are prevalent in Russia. The Russians live in a harsh environment and live more or less distributed, rather than packed like sardines. If you live in a city, motorcycles are the preferred vehicle for bandits. Two guys on a beat up motorcycle should make you take notice.

>And when push comes to shove, a good bandit worth their salt will disable cars in the wilderness by using spike strips.

If you live in such a place, you'll travel in a convoy and arm yourself to the teeth. This is not common anywhere in the West (thankfully). Bandits tend to not be well-equipped, especially in Western countries where that kind of advanced tier organized crime is not tolerated. If you live in a place where such crime is common, your home will also have to be built like a fortress and constantly monitored.

What I'm saying is that travelling by bicycle or on foot exposes you to even the least capable bandits. Have you never had to walk through a bad neighborhood? Wouldn't driving through it be more appealing and obviously safer? For some reason you've chosen to ignore this obvious reality, throwing out weird contingencies to muddle the issue.

Re: The car is not the future: On the myth of motorized freedom

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really confounding the issue. Banditry is entirely a function of social trust and how well the state maintains its monopoly on the use of violence. It's not a question of having armed escorts, bulletproof glass, a sidearm, a kevlar vest, and a faster transport than the bandits. In a lower trust country, cars are the preferred target of bandit attack. Check out Russian dashcam videos to see how it's done. And…

>Banditry is entirely a function of social trust and how well the state maintains its monopoly on the use of violence. The fact you claim that opportunity does not matter shows that you don't understand the issue. No state on the planet is able to 100% guarantee your safety. Choosing to make yourself more vulnerable by traveling on foot is asking for trouble. >In a lower trust country, cars are the preferred target o…

No, I feel much safer going through a bad neighbourhood on a bicycle than in a car. Cars are faster in a straight line but much less manoeuvrable; it's easy to get boxed in, or have someone approach you when you're stuck at a red light. When you stop your vehicle you're a sitting duck. The vehicle itself is also expensive, so your threat window grows; you need to protect the car itself, so you can be threatened with a mere key held in the hand. And cars are a sign of wealth so you're more likely to be targeted. On a bicycle you always have escape routes; you can swerve and turn more easily, go between lanes, or even ride on a sidewalk or into a narrow alley. If someone is chasing you on foot, you can outrun them; if they're chasing you in a car, you can outmaneuver them like you're Joseph Gordon-Levitt in Premium Rush. But for the most part, people in bad neighbourhoods will never hassle you on a bicycle because they see you as one of their own.

Re: The car is not the future: On the myth of motorized freedom

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Banditry is entirely a function of social trust and how well the state maintains its monopoly on the use of violence. The fact you claim that opportunity does not matter shows that you don't understand the issue. No state on the planet is able to 100% guarantee your safety. Choosing to make yourself more vulnerable by traveling on foot is asking for trouble. >In a lower trust country, cars are the preferred target o…

No, I feel much safer going through a bad neighbourhood on a bicycle than in a car. Cars are faster in a straight line but much less manoeuvrable; it's easy to get boxed in, or have someone approach you when you're stuck at a red light. When you stop your vehicle you're a sitting duck. The vehicle itself is also expensive, so your threat window grows; you need to protect the car itself, so you can be threatened with…

You're really stretching, even invoking absurd bicyclist fantasies from movies. Cars are only a sign of wealth in the West to the extent that they look new and expensive. Lots of beaters on the road... Bicycles can be more maneuverable, in some environments, but cars are far safer against most threats. There are only a handful of realistic threats to a person in a car. Most of them involve attempted carjacking. If someone tries to steal your car without a gun pointed at your head, you can often just drive away or run over them.

>The vehicle itself is also expensive, so your threat window grows; you need to protect the car itself, so you can be threatened with a mere key held in the hand.

If you're on a bicycle or on foot, you can be threatened with literally any object. You have to protect your own body and the bicycle. Medical bills cost way more than a scratch on even an expensive car.

>But for the most part, people in bad neighbourhoods will never hassle you on a bicycle because they see you as one of their own.

It depends on what you look like overall, and how expensive your bike is. There are lots of people who would rob you in a place like that to steal your bike, or anything else you might be carrying. And you know, riding a bicycle through a ghetto does not make you a thug. You aren't fooling anyone.

I forgot to mention that on foot or on a bike you are also subject to getting stuff thrown at you (general abuse), the elements, and dog attacks. Are YOU prepared to get in a fight over someone throwing a drink (or bottle of piss, or whatever) at you? If you were in a car, then you'd leave unscathed.

Re: The car is not the future: On the myth of motorized freedom

#106
post #49
post #3

It's interesting how people's positions can be so different. As a European who has lived in two (european) countries with good and affordable transport, I've always been a happy public transport user... until a couple of years ago, that is. Much of the transport is now filled with unpleasant people, dirt, delays, etc which paired with the insane prices of housing in the "walkable" parts of cities, has made me 100% in…

Look one layer deeper and likely the issues are classist. Of course you didn't mention where you were, but, in the places I've lived, it goes down like this: the people who are wealthy enough to not need to use use public transit have more sway in terms of voting/persuading politicians, and push for policies that directly benefit them, even if it's to the detriment of the city overall. Thus: more resources go towards…

Right on point.

Re: The car is not the future: On the myth of motorized freedom

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in large cities like London there are huge areas where public transport is a joke. Yes it's fine in the very tourist center, but get out further from the center where normal people with families actually live and what is a 5-8 minute drive to a large grocery store becomes a mammoth 50-60 minute journey each way . I personally don't want to spend 15% of my waking day going to and from the shops and paying huge pr…

It sounds like your public transport isn't actually good.

This is the point I am trying to make.

Even somewhere which is lauded as having "good" public transport such as London and its actually not good in real life situations. Yes its great and all to visit London or Amsterdam or Berlin or whatever on vacation when you don't have Real Life (TM) responsibilities to worry about and you're only ever shuffling around the most central tourist areas and attractions with no real time pressures etc.

But realistically unless you put train lines literally everywhere there are roads now, and have non-stop trains shuttling around all day every day that turn up every 3 minutes, public transport is going to be terrible for day to day living for most people simply because it doesn't go where you need it to go, when you need it.

I think the 15 minute city proponents are deluding themselves. Yes it is a nice dream that everything is a 15 minute walk away (...presumably on a warm sunny day when you have no time pressures), but really when it comes down to actual day to day living its kinda ridiculous - so you're going to have offices, nurseries, primary schools, secondary schools, universities, doctors, dentists, hospitals, grocery stores, vets, hardware stores, gyms, libraries, churches, synagogues, mosques, cinemas, restaurants, bars, art galleries etc etc - all the things we need for day to day living and life in general - repeated every mile or two so that people can walk to them within 15 mins?

That is absurd.

You just cant have that density of things like major hospitals or universities for example. Ah but then we add public transport links they say! But then you're back to where we are currently with a "good" public transport system actually being expensive and a pain in the ass to use because it can't be a direct link to every single possible place in the urban graph so it ends up meaning in reality you walk 5-10 minutes to reach a stop, wait 5-10 minutes for something to turn up, pay £3.50 to ride for 10-15 minutes, potentially change buses or train/metro/tram lines (including the 5-10 minute wait for that to arrive), get out, walk another 5-10 minutes etc, when if you had just driven it would have taken 5 minutes and you don't need to carry back 18kg of groceries on the return journey that also costs you £3.50 as well and also takes just as long except now everyone else on the bus/train/tram hates you because you're taking up the space of 4 passengers with your shopping bags and you're banging into them. And let's not even start with the weather.

Re: The car is not the future: On the myth of motorized freedom

#108
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think bicycles work very well in a dense and flat city where people respect traffic laws. I am highly skeptical that they are the answer everywhere. Take for example San Francisco with all of its steep hills, or Rio where you have both hills and low adherence to traffic laws. How about Mexico City with its at time horrendous air pollution. In the United States, where many cities didn't really mature until after the…

ebikes solve the hills and age issues. Although they're not actually an issue. Cycling is incredibly low impact, and proper gearing makes going up hills as easy as on flats, just slower Air pollution is the same in a car or outside, no? Most cars don't have HEPA filters. At least on a bike you're getting exercise

ebikes do not solve the age issue: lack of oomph is only one part of aging. There's a lot of other reasons someone elderly might not be able to use a bicycle (or even trike) at all.

The risks of damage from an unexpected fall go up with age (my mum with osteoporosis broke her wrist falling of her bicycle in her 70s - we were lucky it healed well).

I investigated buying a three wheel electric trike for her. But she couldn't have used it (for 3 different important reasons).

Re: The car is not the future: On the myth of motorized freedom

#109
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No place in the world has good public transit then. Which is realistic I guess: fix your own area instead of looking down on others who are worse.

I've been to cities large and small in Japan that had better transit than what you describe in London. That's probably why they have so much ridership.

I did not describe London...

mode share even in tokyo is only 51% - they have a lot of work they can do. That 51% is likely just going to work, cities rarely collect data for other trips but those matter and are places to work on.

Re: The car is not the future: On the myth of motorized freedom

#110

I've lost a lot of enthusiasm about close-range public transport. In Vienna, bicycles get you nearly every twice as fast as public transport, and mostly about as fast as cars, depending on your destination. Bikes are about four times cheaper as public transport too. Public transport ist great to connect cities, and perhaps districts. Beyound that, it quickly hits diminishing returns. It's prohibitly expensive to conn…

> We are now building train stations in the middle of nowhere, not connected to any town. They are not meant to become new city centers, they are meant to be accessed via cars. They are useless for car-free people, and people with cars almost exclusively continue to commute the entire way by car.

Huh, that's interesting; those sorts of park-and-ride facilities tend to be quite popular in many places (though, sometimes too popular, of course; they fill up).

They're a slightly awkward form of infrastructure, in that they have a very specific usership at which they work; if no-one uses them, they're pointless and expensive, but if too many people use them, they're a bit of a disaster, and can cause local congestion.

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