Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Deep Zionism

scottaaronson.blog

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 112 posts

Re: Deep Zionism

#101

Post by dttze »

richardfeynman wrote: post #93
dttze wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You deliberately left it out because it invalidated your point. Even if Israel wasn’t lying about tunnels, they weren’t moving the amount of people you claimed. So your point was bogus.

What do you mean? There is photographic and video evidence of Israel destroying the tunnels after it established the Philadelphia corridor. CGI? Also, let's pretend the tunnels didn't exist (they did). How in the world would that invalidate my point that Gaza wasn't an open air prison because there were more than 500k documented exits in 2022?

> (The statistic I quoted also doesn't include the hundreds of thousands of exits from Gaza to Israel each year, or the undocumented exits through tunnels under rafah, so the exits were indeed much higher, not lower, than the official ocha figures.)

That is what you said. That report didn't support that claim. Which was obvious if you read the part you omitted. Which is why you didn't bother to quote it. It is the second article you linked where you deliberately misrepresented the data. Like your claim of 500k people exiting, when that article said 83% are laborers who go to Israel and back. You realize prisons allow work release too, right?

> There is photographic and video evidence of Israel destroying

There is plenty of video evidence of Israel destroying pretty much everything in Gaza. They have claimed many things, most of them not true. Like those supposedly hidden Hamas C&C facilities in the basements of hospitals (they weren't there, Israel just wanted to destroy the health system).

Re: Deep Zionism

#102

Post by breppp »

konmok wrote: post #81
richardfeynman wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in other words you said I didn't acknowledge the correction, but I did acknowledge it, twice. I then modified it to point out that there were 500k exits from gaza out of a population of 2 million, something I'm glad you now don't dispute, because it gives lie to the whole "open-air prison" narrative.

No, that's not what I said. Once again, you are not being careful with your words, and as a result what you say has only a tenuous relationship to the truth. Yes, you acknowledged your mistake, yet you still insisted upon that incorrect figure later, to a different person in a different subthread. As for the 500k figure, I'm not interested in disputing it since it's just as irrelevant as your 6.6% figure, for reasons…

> 2. That figure does not distinguish exits by Palestinians, Israelis, or other citizens, so it has no bearing on whether Palestinians are trapped in Gaza or not. Many Israeli workers also cross into and out of Gaza constantly.

I don't believe Israelis entered Gaza in 2022. In fact, cases where mentally ill Israelis entered Gaza ended in them being held as hostages by Hamas

Re: Deep Zionism

#103

Post by breppp »

cherry_tree wrote: post #83
breppp wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment talks about occupation in Gaza and then switches to Palestine, if you reread what I said above, I agree the west bank is mostly occupied (Area A isn't). What I am talking about is Gaza. Your appeal to authority does not matter as this is a matter that was not never resolved in courts, and the reasons Israel has withdrawn in the first place was due to international support, which also included the western…

Is Ukraine occupied by Russian troops or no?

Russian troops are currently and since 2014 inside land internationally recognized as part of Ukraine.

In 2005-2023, which is the time I was talking about:

1. Israeli troops were not anywhere inside Gaza

2. There was Hamas, a force that actually controlled Gaza, with its police, army, hospitals, schools, public servants and tendency to shoot opposing Palestinians in the knees

Re: Deep Zionism

#104

Post by breppp »

chaps wrote: post #74
richardfeynman wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your reading comprehension off? I said it wasn't an open air prison, which it isn't.

The only thing that I'm responding to is the first three space-delimited tokens in your post, which was "Prior to 10/7,". Webster's dictionary defines "mention" as: > the act or an instance of citing or calling attention to someone or something especially in a casual or incidental manner So yes, you did mention "10/7".

lol, a bit high on semantics?

Re: Deep Zionism

#105

Post by breppp »

chaps wrote: post #95
richardfeynman wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course you think that, but it's also rather silly. I said "prior to 10/7", to point out that people claimed there was an open-air prison before that date. I wasn't talking about the attacks; I was talking about before the attacks. Do you want me to define "prior" for you?

I think your anger is clouding your interpretation of words and intent of words. Chill, friend.

Reading this thread comes as if you are engaging in some overly polite mode of trolling

Re: Deep Zionism

#106

Post by breppp »

konmok wrote: post #82
anatoly wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The time-wise imbalance of deaths is a very basic fact about the ongoing war, I didn't realize you were ignorant of it and needed a verification. The Hamas-provided statistics are timestamped, you can look e.g. at https://data.techforpalestine.org/docs/casualties-daily/ , download the CSV file, look in the cumulative deaths column, see that it's just over 60k for the entire period, and note that 30k occurs around 202…

Thanks, but we still need better data on births for this argument to hold any water. Additionally, if you want to include the segment of the population that has fled, you will also need data on the birth/death rates for that segment. I would also like to note that you found a study looking at birth/death rates, but after realizing it suggested a shrinking population, decided to combine information from that study wit…

According to Hamas, which is also the source of the data of deaths you previously quoted, the number of births "is equal" to the number of deaths.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/senior-hamas-of...

https://www.memri.org/tv/sami-abu-zuhri-hamas-gaza-war-babie... (Around 00:40)

Re: Deep Zionism

#107

Post by richardfeynman »

dttze wrote: post #96
richardfeynman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you know? I have pictures for proof. I've been involved in the movement since 2002.

Post them then

There is an old Jewish saying: the antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence.

Whether or not I was part of the pro Palestine movement is completely irrelevant to the thread and I have no obligation to prove it to you. Whether you believe it or not doesn't matter to me and iota. But tell you what, if we can put some stakes on this (e.g. $10k if I have the goods), I'll do it for money. I'll be happy to donate to your $ to the idf.

Re: Deep Zionism

#108

Post by breppp »

user982 wrote: post #67
richardfeynman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sources I provided show that there are severe problems with the Gaza Health Ministry list. You may find particular sentences that show the top-line number is correct, and indeed that may be true. I provided those sources not to show that 60k is the wrong number of dead--a figure I myself used in my initial comment--but rather to show that the list itself has issues and that arguments can be made that it's an over…

> (1) why has Israel dropped millions of leaflets to warn of impending attacks?; (2) why has israel sent millions of text messages warning of impending attacks?; These are the kinds of leaflets dropped by Israel: https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20250220-israel-drops-leaf... https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/israel-opt-is... "The world map will not change if all the people of Gaza cease to exist. No one…

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/16/israel-drops-l...

>The leaflets read: “For your safety, you need to evacuate your places of residence immediately and head to known shelters … Anyone near terrorists or their facilities puts their life at risk, and every house used by terrorists will be targeted.”

Re: Deep Zionism

#109

Post by dttze »

richardfeynman wrote: post #107
dttze wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Post them then

There is an old Jewish saying: the antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence. Whether or not I was part of the pro Palestine movement is completely irrelevant to the thread and I have no obligation to prove it to you. Whether you believe it or not doesn't matter to me and iota. But tell…

>There is an old Jewish saying: the antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence. Whether or not I was part of the pro Palestine movement is completely irrelevant to the thread and I have no obligation to prove it to you. Whether you believe it or not doesn't matter to me and iota. But tell you what, if we can put some stakes on this (e.g. $10k if I have the goods), I'll do it for money. I'll be happy to donate to your $ to the idf.

If it is irrelevant, why did you bring it up? It is obvious you are lying, like you have been in every other post in this thread.

And you had to fall back to the usual baseless accusations of antisemitism. Typical hasbara troll.

Re: Deep Zionism

#110

Post by richardfeynman »

dttze wrote: post #109
richardfeynman wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an old Jewish saying: the antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence. Whether or not I was part of the pro Palestine movement is completely irrelevant to the thread and I have no obligation to prove it to you. Whether you believe it or not doesn't matter to me and iota. But tell…

>There is an old Jewish saying: the antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence. Whether or not I was part of the pro Palestine movement is completely irrelevant to the thread and I have no obligation to prove it to you. Whether you believe it or not doesn't matter to me and iota. But tel…

Nice one, but will you put your money where your mouth is?

The fact that I led pro Palestine rallies is irrelevant to the central point we're discussing, which is whether Gaza was an open air prison and whether the was a genocide. It's relevant to my own personal journey from the pro Palestine movement, which I left because of people like you.

Post reply on HN