Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, exactly the same for me. It's tiring writing the same CRUD endpoints a thousand times, but that's how useful products are made.
I wonder why it’s not the norm to use code generation or some other form of meta programming to handle this boring repetitive work?
Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code
101–110 of 132 posts
Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's my biggest worry, atrophy. But I will cross that bridge when I get to it.
With atrophy, by the time you get to the bridge you’ll realise it’s too deteriorated to cross and will have to spend a lot of time rebuilding and reinforcing it before you can get to the other side.
I do think that in a few years time, next generation coding LLMs will read current-generation LLM generated code to improve on it. The question is whether they're smart enough to ignore the implicit requirements in the code if they aren't necessary for the explicit ones.
(this comment makes sense in my head)
Most if not all of my professional projects have been replacing existing software. In theory, they're like-for-like, feature-for-feature rewrites. In practice, there's an MVP of must-have features which usually is only a fraction of the features (implicit or explicit) of the application it replaced, with the rewrite being used as an opportunity to re-assess what is actually needed, what is bloat over time, and of course to do a redesign and re-architecture of the application.
That is, rewriting software was an exercise in extracting explicit features from an application.
Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code
#103What stands out for me, is that it was all possible thanks to the fact that the AI operator/conversationalist had enough knowledge to, more or less write, it all by hand, if he chose to. Probably it was said many times already, but it will rather be the competition between programmers with AI and programmers without one, rather than no programmers with AI. In particular, I love this part: "I had serious doubts about…
Which isn’t really “vibe coding” as it’s been promoted, i.e. a way for non-programmers to just copy and paste their way to fully working software systems.
It’s a very powerful tool but needs to be used by someone with the expertise to find the flaws.
Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
No need to beg. Everyone’s got their opinion. I just wish, this being Hacker News, that more people would articulate their different opinions instead of just stopping with “I disagree.”
Well, my first comment said "reading code is harder than writing code", your comment said "reading good code is easier than writing good code". I believe the two points are about equally articulated.
Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, my first comment said "reading code is harder than writing code", your comment said "reading good code is easier than writing good code". I believe the two points are about equally articulated.
Neither comment is mine. I’m here in the outside wanting to understand the arguments you have in your heads. Sure, the two comments you mention are equally under-articulated. Either continue the discussion for the benefit of others on the site, or leave it as it stands. Stating “I beg to differ” is pointless.
Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code
#106If you are 100% vibe coding then you do not own the code at all. You might have some limited protections in the UK, but EU/US any AI generated code can't be copyrighted.
So someone can steal your Vibe coded app and resell it without fear.
.. The other major issue that I have seen using LLMs is that it is useless if you "don't know what you don't know". Sample code often given is incorrect, or not the best approach.
A few times when I discuss my issues with the code generated, it has offered better code to do the same thing.
Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
I beg to differ.
This is the sign of seniority IMO. First you learn to write code. Then you learn to write code that can be read. Then you learn to modify code. Then you learn to read other people’s code. Then you learn to modify other people’s code. Then you learn to own code regardless of who reads or writes it. At this point in my career 35 years in I find reading and writing code whether I wrote it or other did irrelevant. Bad or…
Just want to add one more point: code is not fiction or even nonfiction, “good or bad” style can be subjective, but correct or not correct is not, regardless of the reviewer’s mental model.
The difficulty of reading code is to understand its logic and logical consequences. The more complex the codebase (not just the line we are reading), the more risky to modify it.
That is why I use LLM to write a lot of tests and let it review the logs to help me understand the logic. Even the tests can be disposable.
Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code
#108I believe choosing a well known problem space in a well known language certainly influenced a lot of the behavior. AIs usefulness is correlated strongly with its training data and there’s no doubt been a significant amount of data about both the problem space and Python. I’d love to see how this compares when either the problem space is different or the language/ecosystem is different. It was a great read regardless!
LLMs are nothing more than rubber ducking in game dev. The code they generate is often useful as a starting point or to lighten the mood because it's so bad you get a laugh. Beyond that it's broadly useless.
I put this down to the relatively small number of people who work in game dev resulting in relatively small number of blogs from which to "learn" game dev.
Game Dev is a conservative industry with a lot of magic sauce hidden inside companies for VERY good reasons.
Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code
#109This is the crux of the A.I. issue.
What a spectacular article.
Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've also had a similar experience. I have become too lazy since I started vibe-coding. My coding has transitioned from coder to code reviewer/fixer vey quickly. Overall I feel like it's a good thing because the last few years of my life has been a repetition of frontend components and api endpoints, which to me has become too monotonous so I am happy to have AI take over that grunt work while I supervise.
> My coding has transitioned from coder to code reviewer/fixer vey quickly. Overall I feel like it's a good thing Until you lose access to the LLM and find your ability has atrophied to the point you have to look up the simplest of keywords. > the last few years of my life has been a repetition of frontend components and api endpoints, which to me has become too monotonous It’s a surprise that so many people have thi…
I never remembered those keywords to begin with.
Checkmate!