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Counter-Strike: A billion-dollar game built in a dorm room

nytimes.com

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Re: Counter-Strike: A billion-dollar game built in a dorm room

#101

Post by harpiaharpyja »

SimianSci wrote: post #91
rimunroe wrote: post #72

I will forever mourn the general demise of server browsers. Too many games require you to use matchmaking systems, which means it's very hard to build up a small community in-game anymore. You either have to rely on forming small parties with people you've stumbled upon one by one, or you have to seek out people from some much larger area like Reddit or Discord. It takes a lot of the serendipity out of the experience…

In general I see this as an issue of gaming becoming more professionally run and maturing over time. Server Browsers make sense in a world in which members of the community are self-hosting their own infrastructure for others to play on. While a great way to build community, it can be a problem when it comes to player retention and competitive mechanics. Player retention can often suffer over the long-term as such co…

I'm sure that's how companies these days justify their choices, but I don't see those problems as being inevitable on self-hosted infrastructure

Re: Counter-Strike: A billion-dollar game built in a dorm room

#102

Post by rimunroe »

SimianSci wrote: post #91
rimunroe wrote: post #72

I will forever mourn the general demise of server browsers. Too many games require you to use matchmaking systems, which means it's very hard to build up a small community in-game anymore. You either have to rely on forming small parties with people you've stumbled upon one by one, or you have to seek out people from some much larger area like Reddit or Discord. It takes a lot of the serendipity out of the experience…

In general I see this as an issue of gaming becoming more professionally run and maturing over time. Server Browsers make sense in a world in which members of the community are self-hosting their own infrastructure for others to play on. While a great way to build community, it can be a problem when it comes to player retention and competitive mechanics. Player retention can often suffer over the long-term as such co…

> In general I see this as an issue of gaming becoming more professionally run and maturing over time.

I don't think anyone is confused about why this happened. It's obvious why a game company which is trying to make money in an extremely competitive field would prefer it. Having a good reason doesn't mean that there isn't reason to mourn the loss of what came before. Some things have improved! We should celebrate that gaming is more accessible now. It's been a long time since I've been kicked from a competitive shooter mid-match because a server crashed.

> Overall, its a tradeoff, the community building aspects of player run servers can truly build colorful and vibrant communities, but this can be at the expense of overall player retention, trading a large and accessible playerbase for a small dedicated community.

I don't run a business. I'd rather have a game with small communities of players which peters out over a few years than a game with millions of players for a decade+. Toward the end of a game's life player run servers allow the game to last potentially forever. The problem of games alienating newcomers is still a problem with matchmaking systems. Your community's average skill goes up over time once the rate of new players joining slows down.

> Additionally, the competitive mechanics, which often draw a large amount of players, can suffer as player-run infrastructure can vary wildly in its connection, uptime, speed, etc. and bring a risk of unsanctioned modifications, cheats, and hacks, all negatively affecting the player experience.

Games have handled this before with "official" servers or ones run by tournament hosts. I actually had fewer trouble with hacks on heavily moderated small servers because so many people knew each other and would catch onto cheaters quickly. Services like VAC help block repeat cheaters from joining in the future. I like having access to mods and to sometimes join a server and find something completely unexpected. I don't care much about competitive play, though I do like a fair number of e-sports-y games. I never had trouble finding vanilla CS servers back in the day.

Re: Counter-Strike: A billion-dollar game built in a dorm room

#103

Post by pityJuke »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #47

Something that wasn't mentioned in the article is that Counter-Strike spawned the creation of the most iconic FPS map ever: de_dust2. If an FPS supports custom maps, it's inevitable that de_dust2 will get ported to it. There's actually a mini-documentary about the creation of de_dust2 [0] which I think will be of interest to FPS fans. I wonder if de_dust2 is the most played FPS map or if it has been dethroned by some…

Dave Johnston also has a write up on his blog, for those interested: https://www.johnsto.co.uk/design/making-dust2/

Re: Counter-Strike: A billion-dollar game built in a dorm room

#104

Post by foobarian »

rimunroe wrote: post #72

I will forever mourn the general demise of server browsers. Too many games require you to use matchmaking systems, which means it's very hard to build up a small community in-game anymore. You either have to rely on forming small parties with people you've stumbled upon one by one, or you have to seek out people from some much larger area like Reddit or Discord. It takes a lot of the serendipity out of the experience…

I loved that time too, as well as the time before it when we used to run text-based MMOs until Origin, Everquest, and Blizzard stole the technology and put a 3D UI on it :-)

Re: Counter-Strike: A billion-dollar game built in a dorm room

#105

Post by IncreasePosts »

hvgenrbrbdh wrote: post #100

I feel like a modern CS1.6 clone that is open-source, community run servers (only), no match-making, modable by design, could actually work. Even in 2025. Just needs some internet meme magic and a few dedicated devs

The problem with mods is that there will be a million different mods with a million different rules A million different levels and behaviors, and you won't get good traction on any any specific style of gameplay, and people will not keep coming back.

Re: Counter-Strike: A billion-dollar game built in a dorm room

#106

Post by rimunroe »

time0ut wrote: post #90
rimunroe wrote: post #72

I will forever mourn the general demise of server browsers. Too many games require you to use matchmaking systems, which means it's very hard to build up a small community in-game anymore. You either have to rely on forming small parties with people you've stumbled upon one by one, or you have to seek out people from some much larger area like Reddit or Discord. It takes a lot of the serendipity out of the experience…

I have so much nostalgia for that time period. Counter-strike was my introduction to how the Internet and TCP/IP worked. I built my first PC to play it. I learned linux to run servers for it. It inspired me and my friends to learn C to try and make our own mod. I made a website for my clan, self hosted it, and registered a domain for it. The community was incredible, partly because of the server browser, as you point…

Counter-Strike was my introduction to actual programming! I learned to write AMX mods to help make administering our servers (banning cheaters and whatnot) mid-match possible without having to interrupt playing to open the console.

> I found out there are third party server browsers for CS2 with modded servers. It is so tiny compared to the old days, but they exist. I played around on a couple around a year ago and had a good time. If you are feeling nostalgic, you should check it out.

Thanks for the tip!

Re: Counter-Strike: A billion-dollar game built in a dorm room

#107

Post by rimunroe »

ToDougie wrote: post #86
rimunroe wrote: post #72

I will forever mourn the general demise of server browsers. Too many games require you to use matchmaking systems, which means it's very hard to build up a small community in-game anymore. You either have to rely on forming small parties with people you've stumbled upon one by one, or you have to seek out people from some much larger area like Reddit or Discord. It takes a lot of the serendipity out of the experience…

Played an insane amount of WC3 mod with you guys. Thank you for all the memories.

Wait really?! Do you remember your handle?

Re: Counter-Strike: A billion-dollar game built in a dorm room

#108

Post by Spunkie »

SimianSci wrote: post #91
rimunroe wrote: post #72

I will forever mourn the general demise of server browsers. Too many games require you to use matchmaking systems, which means it's very hard to build up a small community in-game anymore. You either have to rely on forming small parties with people you've stumbled upon one by one, or you have to seek out people from some much larger area like Reddit or Discord. It takes a lot of the serendipity out of the experience…

In general I see this as an issue of gaming becoming more professionally run and maturing over time. Server Browsers make sense in a world in which members of the community are self-hosting their own infrastructure for others to play on. While a great way to build community, it can be a problem when it comes to player retention and competitive mechanics. Player retention can often suffer over the long-term as such co…

    > Player retention can often suffer over the long-term as such communities establish boundaries and rules, eventually orienting around a small clique of individuals, increasing the friction for integrating new members into the community.
This sentence applied to community moderated servers and server browsers in general is just FUD. These communites are often the exact opposite and take on the roll of getting new players up to speed and properly integrated into the existing community, they absolutely increase player retention.

Also, I find it really ironic that you can come to this conclusion and then talk about pandering to the "competitive" crowd in the same response. Pandering to the try hards has done more damage to the fun/community aspects of gaming than hackers ever could.

Re: Counter-Strike: A billion-dollar game built in a dorm room

#109

Post by IncreasePosts »

GlobalElite wrote: post #46

I grew up with CS1.6 and spent what must be thousands of hours on it before I turned 18. But I can't stand what Valve did to modern versions of CS. The reason? Gambling. So much fucking gambling everywhere. Other games have lootboxes, I hate them, but they are usually "contained" in the sense that you do not see them in every context surrounding the game. But because CS skins can be traded between players, there is n…

Why does the gambling side affect you? Just don't care what your gun or your body armor looks like, and you can play the game normally. As far as I understand it, at least the way it was the last time I played like 7 years ago, the loot boxes didn't give you special powers in the game, they were just skins

Re: Counter-Strike: A billion-dollar game built in a dorm room

#110

Post by pityJuke »

kube-system wrote: post #84
pityJuke wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sole reason Counter-Strike still exists today Every other live service manages with non-gambling skins. They have their own problems (usually around FOMO), but nowhere near the literal gambling that is CS. > Valve would have shut the door on the game In terms of not having any developers on it, sure, not impossible. > (and quite possibly the company entirely) Ahahahaha come on man, even without CS, Valve is one of…

> Every other live service manages with non-gambling skins. Most games that are that old, don't survive.

Arms Deal came out in 2013 [0]. 1.6 came out in 2000, so that is 13 years (not considering CSS came out in 2004, and CS:GO was in 2012, without any monetization).

Fortnite is coming onto 8 years old now. The idea of it being around for 5 years longer is not particularly alien.

[0]: https://blog.counter-strike.net/2013/08/7425/

e: Actually, I should really be focusing on the time from Arms Deal to the present, which is 12 years. So, Fortnite has even less time to catch up to CS' current lifespan with gambling.

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