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Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

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Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#101

Post by 1oooqooq »

neogodless wrote: post #43
1oooqooq wrote: post #35

why only apple and Nvidia are left buying from foundries. is the market for cpu/gpu that bad? zero innovation and other players even in niche markets?

Have you heard of AMD? You know... the company with about 25% of CPU market share (at least in PCs) these days? https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amds-desktop... They have 17% overall according to this chart which includes Apple. https://www.accio.com/business/best-selling-cpus Read up on this young startup, as I think they are going places!

AMD won't buy from Intel. and I'm quoting the article.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#102

Post by robotnikman »

notherhack wrote: post #58
chasil wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel's first exposure was the purchase of DEC StrongARM in the 90s, although that particular product line was sold to Marvel.

Nit: Marvel makes comics. Marvell Technologies (two l's) makes chips with ARM CPUs in them, mostly for datacenter gear.

I remember one of my first PC builds had a RAID card with a Marvell controller. I can still visualize the logo on the POST screen

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#103

Post by sylware »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #22
sylware wrote: post #21

It should be RISC-V... who is in charge at Intel?? Is this related to the rumors of softbank (ARM) money injection in Intel?

>It should be RISC-V... who is in charge at Intel?? Why should it be that? What are your arguments?

oh, you are new to HN, because you would not need to ask such question if you were reading HN in the last few years...

You can start on risc-v wikipedia page and/or on the official risc-v web site.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#104

Post by neogodless »

1oooqooq wrote: post #101
neogodless wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of AMD? You know... the company with about 25% of CPU market share (at least in PCs) these days? https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amds-desktop... They have 17% overall according to this chart which includes Apple. https://www.accio.com/business/best-selling-cpus Read up on this young startup, as I think they are going places!

AMD won't buy from Intel. and I'm quoting the article.

But the article talks about Apple and Nvidia buying from Intel. You said "foundries" (plural) and clearly TSMC has other customers.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#105

Post by threatripper »

epolanski wrote: post #96
close04 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a government finds a sector or company to have strategic importance they will not let it die. The rest is free-market absolutism that never comes to be. I believe today more than ever the US considers Intel to be of strategic importance. > the money will flow there Which money? The CHIPS act [0] isn't only for the ones who produce "better chips for less". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act

The fact that US taxpayers will subsidize Intel does not mean that Nvidia, Google, AMD, etc are gonna other their chips there.

A little subsidy will not do it. We're talking about at least 100, 200, 400, 800 Billion Dollars in the next process generations. If it's government money, then maybe 2x-10x that to get the work done.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#106

Post by DanielHB »

epolanski wrote: post #61
close04 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel has something Samsung doesn't. It's a US company operating mostly on US soil so the US government has a vested interest to keep this strategic asset going for as long as possible.

Tech hardware is a cutthroat business, tech companies are gonna order at Intel if it has something that others don't on a business point of view: more performing, cheaper, faster delivery. The US government can wish and encourage all they want, as long as Samsung, TSMC and any other produces better chips for less, the money will flow there.

Governments can keep companies working for as long as they want. Usually that makes them less competitive over time though and it is all done at the cost of the tax-payer and adjacent industries.

The Chaebol model of Korea is a way to spin it while avoiding the less competitive part by forcing the companies to compete internationally while keeping the domestic market locked into the Chaebol offering.

For example the US gov could force (or subsidize) all datacenters in the US to use intel chips made in intel foundries located in the US. But on the international market intel would need to compete with its rivals.

This is all theoretically possible, but very hard to pull off politically. And it is not necessarily good for the country long term and certainly a tax to the country citizens/adjacent-companies in the short term.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#107

Post by Frieren »

blackoil wrote: post #6
threatripper wrote: post #4

If we assume that intel gets successful with 18A with their x86 processors, would they even have the money to finance the node after that? And the node after that which gets exponentially more expensive? In the past x86 raked in enough money to burn a lot of it on new fab tech but non-x86 has grown immensely and floods TSMC with money. The problem for intel is that their fab tech was fitted to their processor archite…

Apple, Nvidia and US govt can provide the required funds if they have confidence in its ability to deliver. These companies will benefit from breaking current monopoly of TSMC.

> Apple, Nvidia and US govt can provide the required funds

When the first tough about investing is to go to big corporations and the goverment instead of going to investors is a telling about how nowadays the economy works.

I love that the Orange guy has opened the door to the nationalization of big tech. I hope that the next president is bolder on this regard. If all these companies depend on monopolies to exists, they should be state owned/controlled.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#108

Post by nullpoint420 »

sylware wrote: post #103
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It should be RISC-V... who is in charge at Intel?? Why should it be that? What are your arguments?

oh, you are new to HN, because you would not need to ask such question if you were reading HN in the last few years... You can start on risc-v wikipedia page and/or on the official risc-v web site.

I would say they’re smart to invest in ARM over RISC-V for the time being. It was hard enough to get the industry to support x86 and ARM64. I mean the Windows transition is still not fully complete, and they’ve been trying since Windows 8.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#109

Post by sylware »

nullpoint420 wrote: post #108
sylware wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh, you are new to HN, because you would not need to ask such question if you were reading HN in the last few years... You can start on risc-v wikipedia page and/or on the official risc-v web site.

I would say they’re smart to invest in ARM over RISC-V for the time being. It was hard enough to get the industry to support x86 and ARM64. I mean the Windows transition is still not fully complete, and they’ve been trying since Windows 8.

I would say otherwise. The future, if sane, is certainly not with a PI locked ISA like ARM all over again (look at x86). Actually, it looks like a super bad move from intel.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#110

Post by sylware »

mepian wrote: post #52
sylware wrote: post #21

It should be RISC-V... who is in charge at Intel?? Is this related to the rumors of softbank (ARM) money injection in Intel?

Intel demonstrated a RISC-V chip called Horse Creek two years ago.

If they manage to plug their microarch design on RISC-V ISA (yes, they will throw away a ton of things), they will be ready, performance-wise.

This real hard part is transitioning the software stack, including games...

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