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UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

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Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#101

Post by rmccue »

Yeul wrote: post #78
mcjiggerlog wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There oddly seems to be a concerted effort online to paint the UK as some kind of failing police state recently. This narrative seems to have really taken off with some Americans, who now seem completely convinced that the UK government is some kind of totalitarian oppressor who are snatching people off the streets. Meanwhile, Brits just look on at this narrative wondering what the hell they're talking about. Look, I…

I'm not American and I find the English legal system hilarious. In practically all countries a bunch of smart people got together in the 19th century to write a constitution but the British thought that they were above such petty concerns.

The UK has a constitution, it's just not written in a single place.

Many (most?) western societies have a similar concept for civil and criminal law with common law jurisdictions, where precedent is used rather than an explicit, exhaustive legal code. Effectively, the UK's constitution is to written constitutions as common law is to civil law.

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#102

Post by khalic »

esskay wrote: post #85
khalic wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then create a new party, give talks about this, mobilize your friends, family, make them understand that civil liberty is literally worth dying for

For a new political party to succeed in the uk you need millions in funding, and nobodys going to fund something that potentially affects their vast sums of money. "Just start a new party and tell people about it" is perhaps the most misleading and flawed idea you could present unfortunately. There have been new parties, there are new parties at every general election, you never hear about them for good reason.

Ok I don’t know enough about this political system to contribute on that, there are some political systems built like that, like the US.

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#103

Post by L0in »

yungporko wrote: post #30
khalic wrote: post #9

What’s with england and its complete lack of response to this kind of power grabs?

there's really nothing anybody can do. protests dont work, riots dont work, petitions dont work, and theres nobody else to vote for who isn't also a cunt.

They work. But they don't work if your objective is to replace a political party with another one... The problem is the system itself. It needs uprooting.

To quote someone: "You give us rights, only because we gave you riots"

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#104

Post by dgroshev »

mcjiggerlog wrote: post #40
dustincoates wrote: post #5

Without passing judgment on the act, this is incredibly misleading. I found the source of the original quotes[0], and they are taken quite out of context. From the article: >First, we are told, the relevant secretary of state (Michelle Donelan) expressed “concern” that the legislation might whack sites such as Amazon instead of Pornhub. In response, officials explained that the regulation in question was “not primari…

There oddly seems to be a concerted effort online to paint the UK as some kind of failing police state recently. This narrative seems to have really taken off with some Americans, who now seem completely convinced that the UK government is some kind of totalitarian oppressor who are snatching people off the streets. Meanwhile, Brits just look on at this narrative wondering what the hell they're talking about. Look, I…

It's not even internally consistent, although propaganda rarely needs to be consistent. The UK government is somehow both entirely powerless (can't do anything about crime at all), and exceptionally powerful (tightly policing the speech and thoughts of 70 million people).

Very little odd about this btw. Those efforts are intentional and blatant, e.g. [0]. In that case, you can even see that the accounts listed in the article flaunt what they are, their first posts after the blackout are about Israel.

[0]: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/dozens-of-pro-indy-accounts-...

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#105

Post by jjbinx007 »

jphoward wrote: post #95
JFingleton wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is more information about the arrests that are currently taking place: https://freespeechunion.org/police-make-30-arrests-a-day-for...

Why does that link say the current director of public prosecutions is Sir Kier Starmer? It's hard to take it seriously.

It doesn't say he's currently the DPP. It says:

"As director of public prosecutions, Sir Keir Starmer issued..."

Past tense.

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#106

Post by nrawe »

CommanderData wrote: post #12
dustincoates wrote: post #5

Without passing judgment on the act, this is incredibly misleading. I found the source of the original quotes[0], and they are taken quite out of context. From the article: >First, we are told, the relevant secretary of state (Michelle Donelan) expressed “concern” that the legislation might whack sites such as Amazon instead of Pornhub. In response, officials explained that the regulation in question was “not primari…

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj3l0e4vr0ko I strongly suspect it's also meant to curtail growing support among youth for Palestine in the Israel/Gaza conflict. https://www.facebook.com/reel/665564933022223 Essentially creating an internet for children/teens that echos the government narrative.

So, here's the thing, the BBC has a whole section of its news site dedicated to the conflict, including documentation of alleged atrocities committed by Israel and Hamas. Its produced documentaries detailing the settlers movement. The BBC is paid for by the taxpayers. LBC regularly has pro-Israel and pro-Palestine people on. GBNews, Sky and the Murdock-verse have their views mostly from a pro-Israel POV, more left-leaning papers like the Guardian continue to report in favour of the Palestinian people (not Hamas).

So if the government had a major problem with the a free speech, its doing a pretty good job of not showing that.

In the Commons, the argument hasn't been against the humanitarian crisis faced. However, the situation is more complicated when Hamas and a significant portion of the Israeli government want to eradicate each other and end any hopes of the two-state solution, and act accordingly violent.

The situation with Palestine Action being made proscribed also isn't because of their beliefs, but their actions. You can't commit criminal activity like destruction of property and violence against people for political reasons and not come under the remit of anti-terror legislation. The same has happened to environmentalist groups that have taken their actions too far, and for groups like the IRA pre-Good Friday agreement.

I could walk to my local town centre with a placard for either saying: "Stop Genocide in Palestine" or "Down with Hamas" this weekend and not be arrested.

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#107

Post by skeezyboy »

dustincoates wrote: post #5

Without passing judgment on the act, this is incredibly misleading. I found the source of the original quotes[0], and they are taken quite out of context. From the article: >First, we are told, the relevant secretary of state (Michelle Donelan) expressed “concern” that the legislation might whack sites such as Amazon instead of Pornhub. In response, officials explained that the regulation in question was “not primari…

instead of posting the journalists story, HN posted some randomers tweet. thats the problem

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#108

Post by Xelbair »

mcjiggerlog wrote: post #40
dustincoates wrote: post #5

Without passing judgment on the act, this is incredibly misleading. I found the source of the original quotes[0], and they are taken quite out of context. From the article: >First, we are told, the relevant secretary of state (Michelle Donelan) expressed “concern” that the legislation might whack sites such as Amazon instead of Pornhub. In response, officials explained that the regulation in question was “not primari…

There oddly seems to be a concerted effort online to paint the UK as some kind of failing police state recently. This narrative seems to have really taken off with some Americans, who now seem completely convinced that the UK government is some kind of totalitarian oppressor who are snatching people off the streets. Meanwhile, Brits just look on at this narrative wondering what the hell they're talking about. Look, I…

Look, I've been visiting Britain as a tourist for years(since more than 10 years ago) - mostly to visit my friends who live there.

Each time i come there it's worse than previous trip, and your whole infrastructure feels oppressive. Constant reminders to be vigilant because something bad might happen(train and metro jingles come to mind) - implying a terrorist attack. Constant reminders that you're watched by cameras, while crime itself is rampant.

I come from Eastern Europe, yet visiting UK genuinely feels like visiting oppressive police state.

I am aware about your history(first The Troubles, then terrorist scare of 2000s, now domestic problems) but this is NOT the normal state for modern western country. Most likely perspective of Brits who have been living through this since ww2 is heavily culturally skewed, rather than then outside observer's one.

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#109

Post by squidbeak »

crote wrote: post #76
mcjiggerlog wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There oddly seems to be a concerted effort online to paint the UK as some kind of failing police state recently. This narrative seems to have really taken off with some Americans, who now seem completely convinced that the UK government is some kind of totalitarian oppressor who are snatching people off the streets. Meanwhile, Brits just look on at this narrative wondering what the hell they're talking about. Look, I…

> who now seem completely convinced that the UK government is some kind of totalitarian oppressor who are snatching people off the streets It's a bit hard to argue otherwise when the draconian arrests are well-documented by pretty much every single media outlet.

Could you list some for the benefit of those of us who haven't seen any?

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#110

Post by L0in »

tomatocracy wrote: post #72
yungporko wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's really nothing anybody can do. protests dont work, riots dont work, petitions dont work, and theres nobody else to vote for who isn't also a cunt.

I think the most effective solution is to work to ensure that people who have sensible views and are able to think in a reasoned way on topics like this stand for election themselves. As much as many people have distaste for the existing parties, a few people getting involved and changing the parties from the inside on one or two topics like this (which are not party political in nature) is likely to be much more eff…

Anything involved with the electoral process is doomed to fail. The system is designed that way to squash the few voices that want change. It needs uprooting not band-aid.
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