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Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans Can Apply

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Re: Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans Can Apply

#101

Post by digitalPhonix »

dilyevsky wrote: post #76
1024core wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be hard, but there are no guarantees and a clock is ticking. Say you lose your job. Boom, the clock starts ticking and now you're in a rush to find an acceptable job that meets the criteria of H1B. Say your manager mistreats you; denies you promotion, raises, etc. and you want to leave. You can't just quit and start looking. You have to line up something that will come through in 60 days and only then you…

> You can't just quit and start looking. So? You’re not entitled to always get your favorite thing. Shocking, i know. Get a transfer, then turn in the notice. How hard can that be? Id argue if you cant just get another job you’re probably not entitled to this visa designed for workers in high demand.

This was in response to

> So you basically become an indentured servant, always afraid Da Bossman will fire you [...]

So it’s kind of hard to get a job before getting fired if the firing is a perpetual threat.

> this visa designed for workers in high demand

No, it’s designed for people with “theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge”. Nothing about demand. If there was one person in the world who could frombulate widgets and only one employer in the US who needed to frombulate widgets, that person would be suitable for an H1B (subject to all it’s other restrictions).

That person would not be able to find another job quickly.

Re: Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans Can Apply

#102

Post by sunshowers »

ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #57
gboss wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better for everyone because the talented H1B employee is no longer shackled to their employer and can leave demanding a higher wage and raising wages for everyone.

> can leave demanding a higher wage and raising wages for everyone. This is simply not believable. More competition for a limited resource (jobs) means lower wages, not higher wages.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy

Re: Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans Can Apply

#103

Post by dilyevsky »

sunshowers wrote: post #100
dilyevsky wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have ~60 days from the date of employment termination to have your work permit transferred or you are out of status, period. What the hell else supposed to happen to your temp worker visa when you’re no longer a worker? Are you supposed to just get an immigration hall pass indefinitely? Same point as in sibling thread - if you cant get a new job lined up while still employed or within 60 days of being laid off,…

If someone is sexually harassed or assaulted while being on an H1B and becomes ill because of it, what should they do? People often have to take months off of work to recover from workplace sexual assault. Any imbalance of power is a vector for sexual harassment, assault, or discrimination in general.

You really are grasping at straws here. There are special visas/immigration status for these cases. Hard to believe I know but people who designed these policies aren't complete morons.

Re: Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans Can Apply

#104

Post by sunshowers »

dilyevsky wrote: post #103
sunshowers wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is sexually harassed or assaulted while being on an H1B and becomes ill because of it, what should they do? People often have to take months off of work to recover from workplace sexual assault. Any imbalance of power is a vector for sexual harassment, assault, or discrimination in general.

You really are grasping at straws here. There are special visas/immigration status for these cases. Hard to believe I know but people who designed these policies aren't complete morons.

What special visa are we talking about? U visas have a high bar which workplace discrimination often doesn't meet.

It's not grasping at straws by the way. Perhaps no one has confided in you. I, personally, was sexually harassed and discriminated against while on an H-1B visa. I've heard many stories of women and non-binary people on work visas being harassed and powerless about it. Any power imbalance is a vector for this stuff (the formal term for this concept is "intersectionality"). As a society we ought to move towards less imbalance, not more.

> but people who designed these policies aren't complete morons.

Perhaps so, but that isn't enough to establish that the policies aren't bad.

Re: Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans Can Apply

#105

Post by danesparza »

missedthecue wrote: post #13
danesparza wrote: post #4

So the narrative of this site is that they think recruiters are doing a poor job of spamming me with positions that nobody wants? I mean, hiring is down -- but I still get those spam messages. (And spoiler alert: I still don't want those positions)

No, the ELI5 is that the companies are posting jobs in a way that makes it very inconvenient to find online or apply for them, to ensure it goes to the H1B visa holder and not to an American national. (actually it's less about filling the job itself and more about the PERM greencard process, but that's not super relevant to the explanation.) By law, these companies must prove the job cannot be filled by an American i…

The fundamental flaw in your thinking is that you think you are owed a good paying job in the first place.

If you want the system to give you a good paying job, then change the system. Get everyone around you to agree to a universal basic income and elect representatives that feel the same way that you do.

Don't hate companies for posting jobs in a way in which they are legally required to. And don't hate Americans for not wanting to earn advanced degrees or get years of experience in order to qualify for a job.

Re: Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans Can Apply

#106

Post by y-curious »

avidiax wrote: post #53
y-curious wrote: post #39

Cool, a job board site where you're guaranteed to be rejected because they are only posting the job to hire an H1B. Is there any legal mechanism in place by which this jams up the company posting these? I don't think so. They'll just say you aren't qualified and move on

Just tell them you are qualified. Now they have to interview you to determine that you are not. Ultimately, this is something that the government should be monitoring. It's a legal farce that the system depends on U.S. citizens diligently applying for jobs that both sides know will never result in a job placement.

I had a company ask me, early in my career, to post a job posting for an H1B job on the wall of a locker room at a hospital. I was unwittingly involved in this physical theater.

Re: Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans Can Apply

#107

Post by carlosjobim »

darth_avocado wrote: post #47
healsdata wrote: post #16

At least one company I worked at purposefully crafted these job descriptions so that no one would be qualified. They'd find the most obscure parts of our tech stack, require hands on experience with each library, knowledge of our niche, and so on. You basically had to be already working for us to have the required experience.

The companies are just trying to work with the flawed system that is place. Even if a role is in shortage, it’s impossible for a company by itself to prove that there is a shortage. If in the total market, there are 10000 jobs for “position X” and there are 8000 total US citizens that qualify for that role, if you are a company that has an H1B for the other 2000 positions, there is no way you can prove there is a sho…

You're missing the entire point of a free labour market system. If there are 10000 jobs for "position x" and only 8000 citizens who qualify, then companies are forced to compete with each other to attract those workers. Usually by paying higher wages. Or companies are forced to train people to get qualified workers. Can't do either? Then shut down your business and retire in eternal shame for being a worthless failure.

That's the entire idea, that's what a nation is built for. A "shortage" of workers is exactly the desired result in a healthy free market nation.

Re: Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans Can Apply

#108

Post by carlosjobim »

danesparza wrote: post #105
missedthecue wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the ELI5 is that the companies are posting jobs in a way that makes it very inconvenient to find online or apply for them, to ensure it goes to the H1B visa holder and not to an American national. (actually it's less about filling the job itself and more about the PERM greencard process, but that's not super relevant to the explanation.) By law, these companies must prove the job cannot be filled by an American i…

The fundamental flaw in your thinking is that you think you are owed a good paying job in the first place. If you want the system to give you a good paying job, then change the system. Get everyone around you to agree to a universal basic income and elect representatives that feel the same way that you do. Don't hate companies for posting jobs in a way in which they are legally required to. And don't hate Americans f…

> The fundamental flaw in your thinking is that you think you are owed a good paying job in the first place.

Let's spit on the filthy peasants, my brother!

> If you want the system to give you a good paying job, then change the system.

Are you talking about the system that forces companies to prove that they can't find any qualified citizen if they want to hire a foreigner?

Re: Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans Can Apply

#109

Post by trallnag »

redat00 wrote: post #81

(French citizen speaking) I think that y'all are a bit unfair in the way you're talking about H-1Bs. I know that in the US recruitment in tech is at a all time low, and that you would most likely want the few jobs that actually exist to go towards US Citizens. I get this feeling. However, thinking that you're jobless because of H-1B is kind of ridiculous. You're straight up lying to yourselves at this point. I get th…

Be better? Be less condescending.

Re: Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans Can Apply

#110

Post by odo1242 »

georgemcbay wrote: post #33
gboss wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better for everyone because the talented H1B employee is no longer shackled to their employer and can leave demanding a higher wage and raising wages for everyone.

Well you just answered why they don't/won't do this. The H1B employees being shackled and thus having little to no leverage to demand higher compensation or better working conditions is (from the point of view of the companies abusing the system) a feature of the system, not a bug.

Well, which is exactly why we should do this
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