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GPT-5: "How many times does the letter b appear in blueberry?"

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101–110 of 339 posts

Re: GPT-5: "How many times does the letter b appear in blueberry?"

#101
That because you don’t say

“Think hard about this” and the OpenAI router layer routed you to the cheaper model.

GPT5 seems to violate Rich Sutton’s bitter lesson. As GPT5 makes a lot of human knowledge assumptions about whether to send your prompt to the cheap model or to the smarter more expensive model.

Re: GPT-5: "How many times does the letter b appear in blueberry?"

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's the entire architecture of the model. There's no real reasoning. It seems that reasoning is just a feedback loop on top of existing autocompletion. It's really disingenuous for the industry to call warming tokens for output, "reasoning," as if some autocomplete before more autocomplete is all we needed to solve the issue of consciousness. Edit: Letter frequency apparently has just become another scripted out…

Please define “real reasoning”? Where is the distinction coming from?

Athenian wisdom suggests that fallacious thought is "unreasonable". So reason is the opposite of that.

Re: GPT-5: "How many times does the letter b appear in blueberry?"

#103
post #22

Isn't that just an artifact caused by the tokenization of the training and input data? See https://platform.openai.com/tokenizer https://github.com/openai/tiktoken

Common misconception. That just means the algorithm for counting letters can't be as simple as adding 1 for every token. The number of distinct tokens is tiny compared to the parameter space, and it's not infeasible to store a mapping from token type to character count in those weights.

If you're fine appealing to less concrete ideas, transformers are arbitrary function approximators, tokenization doesn't change that, and there are proofs of those facts.

For any finite-length function (like counting letters in a bounded domain), it's just a matter of having a big enough network and figuring out how to train it correctly. They just haven't bothered.

Re: GPT-5: "How many times does the letter b appear in blueberry?"

#106
Let's change this game a bit. Spell "understanding" in your head in reverse order without spending twice more time than forward mode. Can you? I can't. Does that mean we don't really understand even simple spelling? It is a fun activity to dunk on LLMs, but let's have some perspective here.

Re: GPT-5: "How many times does the letter b appear in blueberry?"

#107
post #59

I just tried it and sure enough, 3 Bs. But which the model to "ChatGPT 5 Thinking" and it gets the answer right. Is that where we're going with this? The user has to choose between fast and dumb or slow and right?

Fast: when wrong is good enough.

Acceptable in the business world.

Re: GPT-5: "How many times does the letter b appear in blueberry?"

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great idea. Like, if someone asked me to count the number of B's in your paragraph, I'd yeet it through `grep -o 'B' file.txt | wc -l` or similar, why would I sit there counting it by hand? As a human, if you give me a number on screen like 100000000, I can't be totally sure if that's 100 Million or 1 Billion without getting close and counting carefully. Should ought have my glasses. Mouse pointer helps som…

If you have to build an MCP for every system you aren’t building intelligence in the first place.

What if MCP servers were really the neurons we were looking for all along? /s

Re: GPT-5: "How many times does the letter b appear in blueberry?"

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please define “real reasoning”? Where is the distinction coming from?

Can we not downvote this, please? It's a good question. There's prior art for formal logic and knowledge representation systems dating back several decades, but transformers don't use those designs. A transformer is more like a search algorithm by comparison, not a logic one. That's one issue, but the other is that reasoning comes from logic, and the act of reasoning is considered a qualifier of consciousness. But va…

There is no model of conscience or reasoning.

The hard truth is we have no idea. None. We got ideas and conjectures, maybe's and probably's, overconfident researchers writing books while hand waving away obvious holes, and endless self introspective monologues.

Don't waste your time here if you know what reasoning and consciousness are, go get your nobel prize.

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