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Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

denverite.com

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Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#101
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is in fact quite wrong and one of the biggest obstacles in American society is fetishization of homeownership.

You may object to it, but a home has been the smartest investment I've ever made.

The "fuck you got mine" attitude so many homeowners have and deliberate supply restriction to increase property values makes it a smart investment on paper, at the cost of screwing everyone else coming after you.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because this doesn’t magically solve the housing crisis It does. Twenty thousand units represent about 5% of Denver's housing stock [1]. Commit to adding this many units to the housing stock every year for the next 10 years and you'll have solved the housing crisis. (You'll probably need to bail out recent homebuyers, who will be permanently underwater, but that's a separate issue.) [1] http://censusreporter.org/pr…

> It does. Twenty thousand units represent about 5% of Denver's housing stock [1]. Commit to adding this many units to the housing stock every year for the next 10 years and you'll have solved the housing crisis. (You'll probably need to bail out recent homebuyers, who will be permanently underwater, but that's a separate issue.) That is only if you believe that more capacity does not induce more demand, which really…

Except that all the folks that left Austin to move to Denver makes the houses prices in Austin drop.

Now the folks in Denver who hadn't considered Austin due to high rates can move there and reduce the costs in Denver again.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in poverty have to pay for housing. Reducing the price of housing helps them, and may even help them climb out of poverty. Building more housing reduces the price of housing.

> People in poverty have to pay for housing. No, they don't have to. That's a decision our society has made, and in my opinion it was a horribly evil one.

Even if the government is paying for housing for them, cheaper housing means that the government can pay for more people's housing. Building housing reduces the price of housing...

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#104
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then you're just shifting the cost somewhere else. The doctors aren't working for free. Someone is paying them. It's just not the patients in the case of free clinics. In addition, doctors aren't the only cost centers in health care either. Even if they're free, which is sort of already the case or fairly inexpensive for the insured in the US, the overall cost of healthcare will still be high. Plus if you want co…

> It isn't as simple as supply and demand. It really is that simple. Giving people insurance without actually increasing the supply of doctors or clinics increases the number of people willing and able to seek treatment. It does nothing for lowering costs of said treatment. Per basic economics, that’s shifting the demand curve (i.e., increasing demand). With no changes to supply that leads to higher prices. So every…

I think you’re still missing the point - it’s NOT classic supply and demand because the mechanism by which that works is prices, and in many healthcare markets including the US — the buyer isn’t the payer, and shortages lead to rationing (via wait times) rather than increased prices, so often increasing supply doesn’t change prices even as it increases aggregate costs (because there’s still excess demand and rationing).

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#105
post #104
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It isn't as simple as supply and demand. It really is that simple. Giving people insurance without actually increasing the supply of doctors or clinics increases the number of people willing and able to seek treatment. It does nothing for lowering costs of said treatment. Per basic economics, that’s shifting the demand curve (i.e., increasing demand). With no changes to supply that leads to higher prices. So every…

I think you’re still missing the point - it’s NOT classic supply and demand because the mechanism by which that works is prices, and in many healthcare markets including the US — the buyer isn’t the payer, and shortages lead to rationing (via wait times) rather than increased prices, so often increasing supply doesn’t change prices even as it increases aggregate costs (because there’s still excess demand and rationin…

For this argument to work you have to believe that decreasing the price of service delivery wouldn't decrease the price of health insurance. Provider costs dominate US national health expenditure, like it's not even close; it's not a full order of magnitude difference but it's close to one.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may object to it, but a home has been the smartest investment I've ever made.

The "fuck you got mine" attitude so many homeowners have and deliberate supply restriction to increase property values makes it a smart investment on paper, at the cost of screwing everyone else coming after you.

I'm not sure why it has to be that way. Build more houses.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are NPs not just the trend of enshittification? Most doctors already aren't very engaged in the tiny 15 minute slices of appointments, and now we're supposed to be happy that they'll be even less educated? The most straightforward way to address the doctor shortage is to make it so doctors are spending most of their time on healthcare, rather than appeasing "insurance" company bureaucrats with onerous paperwork.

There are NP mills that will take you from high school, put you through an accelerated RN and prereqs and basically have you as an independent provider in just a few years out of high school (well, 4-5), that’s ridiculous.

Is there any evidence that _8_ years of post-secondary education (plus 3-7 years of residency at poverty wages) actually improves medical outcomes?

5 years could be plenty?

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#108
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it wrong to want to have equity in the place you live? "Ownership" could be a house, it could be a townhome, it could be flat. But in the US, "owning" an apartment is very rare, while real estate investors buy up all the valuable land in the urban cores of cities and rent it.

If you want equity in real estate nobody is stopping you. The problem is when people get this idea that we need to discourage investors from building very greatly desired rental housing.

I'm pretty sure investors are persuaded by money and little else — if renting is profitable they'll build rentals.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because this doesn’t magically solve the housing crisis It does. Twenty thousand units represent about 5% of Denver's housing stock [1]. Commit to adding this many units to the housing stock every year for the next 10 years and you'll have solved the housing crisis. (You'll probably need to bail out recent homebuyers, who will be permanently underwater, but that's a separate issue.) [1] http://censusreporter.org/pr…

> It does. Twenty thousand units represent about 5% of Denver's housing stock [1]. Commit to adding this many units to the housing stock every year for the next 10 years and you'll have solved the housing crisis. (You'll probably need to bail out recent homebuyers, who will be permanently underwater, but that's a separate issue.) That is only if you believe that more capacity does not induce more demand, which really…

A 5% increase in supply annually indefinitely would crash the housing market there, induced demand be damned. To put it in perspective, a metro area growing at 2% is killing it, the highest growth rate is Austin at 3%. Denver only grows at less than 1%.

Cheaper homes may induce demand, they won't induce a 5% growth rate.

Re: Denver rent is back to 2022 prices after 20k new units hit the market

#110
post #33

Just because this doesn’t magically solve the housing crisis, doesn’t mean it’s not a good start. We have to stop looking at magical solutions that will solve all our problems in one shot. We have to start somewhere.

> because this doesn’t magically solve the housing crisis It does. Twenty thousand units represent about 5% of Denver's housing stock [1]. Commit to adding this many units to the housing stock every year for the next 10 years and you'll have solved the housing crisis. (You'll probably need to bail out recent homebuyers, who will be permanently underwater, but that's a separate issue.) [1] http://censusreporter.org/pr…

> You'll probably need to bail out recent homebuyers, who will be permanently underwater

If you buy a house for $400k, and suddenly it is worth $300k, you don't need to be "bailed out" for your purchase decision. You should have been certain that the house was worth $400k to you at the time of purchase. Otherwise you're a speculator, and we shouldn't be bailing out speculators.

It's called buyer's remorse. We accept it when it's a car or a TV, but suddenly when it's a house we're supposed to give massive government support to correct the buyer's mistake?

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