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I tried Servo

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Re: I tried Servo

#101

Post by danelski »

uncircle wrote: post #90
nicce wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is difficult to get people to pay for it. People happily pay for 10€ beer but asked ”friends” about how to bypass WhatsApp’s 0,99 lifetime licenses.

I've heard the same thing about monetising search engines. Kagi didn't get the memo, and last I've heard they're turning a profit. Sure, only nerds would pay for it, but not all products have to capture 100% market share.

But independent browsers need this metric. Good luck convincing website owners to test against your non-chromium browser with 0.3% market share.

Re: I tried Servo

#102

Post by DoctorOetker »

0x000xca0xfe wrote: post #41
olalonde wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my point... The fewer people use Firefox, the less money they get from Google. If you follow the money, it doesn't make sense for them to neglect Firefox.

> The fewer people use Firefox, the less money they get from Google This is not reflected in the numbers, at least from what I've found: 300m/year in 2011[1], 400+m/year in 2020[2], 485m/year in 2025[3]. [1] https://www.computerworld.com/article/1543269/google-to-pay-... [2] https://www.pcmag.com/news/mozilla-signs-lucrative-3-year-go... [3] https://nerdschalk.com/85-of-mozillas-revenue-at-risk-firefo...

Is mozilla being rewarded if the user base provably falls?

Re: I tried Servo

#104

Post by airstrike »

Macha wrote: post #94
airstrike wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm super biased in favor of iced. Yes, there are missing features (it's not even version 1.0 yet!) but I think the number is very small now and the solution is usually to fill in the gaps yourself—which is possible because iced is totally modular I've made a spreadsheet editor and a slideshow editor with it so "slimmed down photoshop" seems feasible although admittedly you will likely need to get deep into the rende…

No support for RTL or CJK text, IMEs, or accessibility tools leaves it pretty firmly in the "toy" category for me for now, sadly. This isn't meant to bash on the project specifically, basically the only tools that meet that criteria are platform native UIs, the web stack (including Electron), Qt and Flutter. AccessKit is promising to change that but I haven't checked in a while how it's going. I did see GTK looking i…

In that case, I'm happy to let you know your info is outdated. CJK/IME support has landed.

https://github.com/iced-rs/iced/pull/2777

Re: I tried Servo

#106

Post by jm4 »

Buttons840 wrote: post #91
jm4 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should look into why they chose it and what their implementation plan is. They evaluated multiple languages, including rust. There were some specific issues with rust that made it unsuitable for them. Swift was a bit of a dark horse candidate that the developers ended liking. There is no immediate plan to switch to anything so it’s still C++. They may not ever switch. Swift’s cross platform support isn’t there ye…

I couldn't find any information beyond that Tweet I linked.

I'll see if I can find it. I don't remember the specifics on rust, but it sounded like they gave it a fair shot. It was basically the one to beat until they figured out it wasn't going to work. The decision to adopt Swift wasn't made on a whim and, frankly, I'm skeptical it will happen any time soon, if ever. I think it's one of those situations where they want to make it more accessible to a next generation of developers the same way Linux is adopting rust. Swift is actually a really nice language, despite being associated primarily with Apple. It would be cool to see higher adoption.

Ladybird has an interesting way of documenting web standards in code. They put a link to the reference doc at the top of a function and then each rule in a comment where it is implemented. It's very easy to follow and good quality code. Another project I recall having high quality code was KHTML. Not coincidentally, Andreas Kling worked on that one too.

There are examples here: https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird/tree/master/Libr...

Anyway, the point is what they are doing is working well and Swift won't be ready for a while. If it ever happens, it won't be a rewrite. It'll more likely be a situation where it's written in both the same way Linux is both C and rust.

Re: I tried Servo

#107

Post by [deleted] »

echelon wrote: post #70
goku12 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (Taffy [0]) that can be used standalone and is widely used accross the Rust UI ecosystem, including in the Blitz [1] web engine (which also uses Taffy for Flexbox and Block layout) This is the first time I hear about Blitz. Looks equally interesting and ambitious. It is probably the real undercover web engine. Servo was widely known around when Rust debuted.

Questions for the Rust UX experts: Is Dioxus (or Leptos) much more performant than Tauri/Electron? I want to (1) build blindingly fast, low-latency, super performant UX for users, which precludes Tauri/Electron (something I'm currently using and unhappy about), but I also want to (2) maintain developer velocity, (3) have access to nice UX primitives and widgets, and (4) have it look nice and modern. Javascript/browse…

[deleted]

Re: I tried Servo

#108

Post by nicoburns »

echelon wrote: post #70
goku12 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (Taffy [0]) that can be used standalone and is widely used accross the Rust UI ecosystem, including in the Blitz [1] web engine (which also uses Taffy for Flexbox and Block layout) This is the first time I hear about Blitz. Looks equally interesting and ambitious. It is probably the real undercover web engine. Servo was widely known around when Rust debuted.

Questions for the Rust UX experts: Is Dioxus (or Leptos) much more performant than Tauri/Electron? I want to (1) build blindingly fast, low-latency, super performant UX for users, which precludes Tauri/Electron (something I'm currently using and unhappy about), but I also want to (2) maintain developer velocity, (3) have access to nice UX primitives and widgets, and (4) have it look nice and modern. Javascript/browse…

> Is Dioxus (or Leptos) much more performant than Tauri/Electron?

For now it's largely the same. Both Dioxus and Leptos render using Tauri (or a web browser). For Dioxus, a Blitz-based renderer (Dioxus Native ) is in development which will change the story slightly.

I would suggest Iced if you're looking for efficient (I don't think it's any less featureful than any other Rust-based GUI). With honourable mentions for Slint and Vizia.

Re: I tried Servo

#109

Post by jpc0 »

echelon wrote: post #70
goku12 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (Taffy [0]) that can be used standalone and is widely used accross the Rust UI ecosystem, including in the Blitz [1] web engine (which also uses Taffy for Flexbox and Block layout) This is the first time I hear about Blitz. Looks equally interesting and ambitious. It is probably the real undercover web engine. Servo was widely known around when Rust debuted.

Questions for the Rust UX experts: Is Dioxus (or Leptos) much more performant than Tauri/Electron? I want to (1) build blindingly fast, low-latency, super performant UX for users, which precludes Tauri/Electron (something I'm currently using and unhappy about), but I also want to (2) maintain developer velocity, (3) have access to nice UX primitives and widgets, and (4) have it look nice and modern. Javascript/browse…

> I want to (1) build blindingly fast, low-latency, super performant UX for users, … (2) maintain developer velocity, (3) have access to nice UX primitives and widgets … (4) have it look nice and modern.

Find me when you find this, because I actually think it is impossible.

I think there is fundamentally too much inherent complexity to abstract away to keep 2 and not sacrifice 1. Specifically for something properly cross platform.

If you are only targeting MacOS or windows then I think it’s absolutely possible but then you are using the wrong language, nothing against rust at all on that, the platform defaults are just swift / C# for those use cases.

And I’m not sure but unless you are just using a gtk/Qt style framework you would absolutely run into a11y problems that you would need to build around yourself.

Sounds like you probably want egui though… if your primary UI is a big canvas that needs to be hardware accelerated and interaction is just to assist that use case egui is probably a good bet for you. But you wouldn’t be hiring web devs to do that.

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