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Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

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Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#101

Post by lotyrin »

zarzavat wrote: post #83
SJC_Hacker wrote: post #57

It was well on its way to being eliminated in much of the First World through screening during pregnancy at around 2-3 months. Alot of mothers were electing to terminate the pregnancy and perhaps try again. Especially much of Europe which didn't quite have the moral objections against abortion that the US does, save for a few countries who still have substantial observant Catholics such as Ireland and Poland. Here's…

> Some bioethics experts are concerned I do have to wonder what goes on in the minds of these people. My sister-in-law has a child with Down's syndrome and the situation basically ruined her life. She can no longer work, so they now struggle on a single income, if her husband were to leave her she would be completely screwed. To what end is that in the continuance of ethics?

Those sound like capitalism problems, not medical ones, to be probably too honest (HN doesn't generally vibe with class consciousness because so many tech bros sell out or dream of selling out one day, but). Society can afford to have support systems for people with disabilities and their supportive family, as evidenced by the fact that it is currently doing so indirectly (by paying enough for the husband's labor that he can make finances work for the three of them). The fact that the husband in your scenario bears all of that for everyone else (and it creates an unhealthy dependency in their relationship) because we only value the under classes for their contribution of labor is the problem, and is solvable.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#102

Post by squigz »

mathgeek wrote: post #29
puppycodes wrote: post #10

Interesting, I wonder what else this might lead too! Encouraging we might be getting somewhere. I used to live near a Down syndrome center where a bunch of folks lived and I remember this one lady who was kitted out with Britney Spears everything, lunchbox, t-shirt, hat, and headphones. Everyday I passed by the bus stop she would be dancing her heart out to a Britney track waiting for the bus and it made my world a l…

> Everyday I passed by the bus stop she would be dancing her heart out to a Britney track waiting for the bus and it made my world a little brighter. As someone who absolutely loves to "be weird", I often wish the world was so much friendlier to folks like this (other than in a token manner).

This person has the support they need (institutional and otherwise) to be healthy and happy and they have something they can connect to and express themselves with. How is that a token manner?

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#104

Post by jaapbadlands »

squigz wrote: post #102
mathgeek wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyday I passed by the bus stop she would be dancing her heart out to a Britney track waiting for the bus and it made my world a little brighter. As someone who absolutely loves to "be weird", I often wish the world was so much friendlier to folks like this (other than in a token manner).

This person has the support they need (institutional and otherwise) to be healthy and happy and they have something they can connect to and express themselves with. How is that a token manner?

That's not what they said.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#105

Post by shadowgovt »

ghurtado wrote: post #99
puppycodes wrote: post #10

Interesting, I wonder what else this might lead too! Encouraging we might be getting somewhere. I used to live near a Down syndrome center where a bunch of folks lived and I remember this one lady who was kitted out with Britney Spears everything, lunchbox, t-shirt, hat, and headphones. Everyday I passed by the bus stop she would be dancing her heart out to a Britney track waiting for the bus and it made my world a l…

See, it's stories like this one that make me really question just how ethical it is to completely eliminate Down's from the gene pool. I understand it's the correct medical and scientific thing to do, it's just that it sometimes feels a little bit like eugenics for me.

FWIW, since Down's is caused by (we're pretty sure) mitotic error, it can't be completely eliminated from the gene pool. 99% of cases did not occur on hereditary lines. With or without the existence of the treatment, Down's cases would continue to surface. So it's in the category of "treatments parents could choose to apply to their offspring," and generally parents get pretty broad leeway there in choice of the kind of offspring they're aiming for (starting with dating the guy with pretty eyes or the girl with the cute hair thing).

... Whether society is mature enough to recognize that in the presence of that treatment, Down's people will still be born and they have every bit the same dignity-of-human-life as the rest of us is a very important question.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#106

Post by LargeWu »

lotyrin wrote: post #101
zarzavat wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some bioethics experts are concerned I do have to wonder what goes on in the minds of these people. My sister-in-law has a child with Down's syndrome and the situation basically ruined her life. She can no longer work, so they now struggle on a single income, if her husband were to leave her she would be completely screwed. To what end is that in the continuance of ethics?

Those sound like capitalism problems, not medical ones, to be probably too honest (HN doesn't generally vibe with class consciousness because so many tech bros sell out or dream of selling out one day, but). Society can afford to have support systems for people with disabilities and their supportive family, as evidenced by the fact that it is currently doing so indirectly (by paying enough for the husband's labor tha…

Forget the economic aspect of it, what about the emotional and mental cost something like Downs Syndrome imparts, for both parents? I can't imagine any parent hoping they will have a child that will be utterly dependent on them for their entire lives. It's not at all to say they do not love their children as they are, but nobody seeks to become a parent hoping their child will have severe developmental disabilities. While some may choose not to terminate the pregnancy, I think most parents would think twice before conceiving if they knew with reasonable certainty before the fact.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#108

Post by [deleted] »

foolfoolz wrote: post #80
puppycodes wrote: post #10

Interesting, I wonder what else this might lead too! Encouraging we might be getting somewhere. I used to live near a Down syndrome center where a bunch of folks lived and I remember this one lady who was kitted out with Britney Spears everything, lunchbox, t-shirt, hat, and headphones. Everyday I passed by the bus stop she would be dancing her heart out to a Britney track waiting for the bus and it made my world a l…

we are going to become very good at this. eliminating genetic errors, choosing to be straight, tall, etc

[deleted]

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#109

Post by daedrdev »

lotyrin wrote: post #101
zarzavat wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some bioethics experts are concerned I do have to wonder what goes on in the minds of these people. My sister-in-law has a child with Down's syndrome and the situation basically ruined her life. She can no longer work, so they now struggle on a single income, if her husband were to leave her she would be completely screwed. To what end is that in the continuance of ethics?

Those sound like capitalism problems, not medical ones, to be probably too honest (HN doesn't generally vibe with class consciousness because so many tech bros sell out or dream of selling out one day, but). Society can afford to have support systems for people with disabilities and their supportive family, as evidenced by the fact that it is currently doing so indirectly (by paying enough for the husband's labor tha…

HN doesn't generally vibe with class consciousness because their high income makes them far more aligned with the "capitalist class" just like how a small business owner is much more aligned with the worker class despite being workers and business owners respectively, since it turns out that people do not value their theoretical "class" since it has no relevance to their life.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#110

Post by shadowgovt »

LargeWu wrote: post #106
lotyrin wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those sound like capitalism problems, not medical ones, to be probably too honest (HN doesn't generally vibe with class consciousness because so many tech bros sell out or dream of selling out one day, but). Society can afford to have support systems for people with disabilities and their supportive family, as evidenced by the fact that it is currently doing so indirectly (by paying enough for the husband's labor tha…

Forget the economic aspect of it, what about the emotional and mental cost something like Downs Syndrome imparts, for both parents? I can't imagine any parent hoping they will have a child that will be utterly dependent on them for their entire lives. It's not at all to say they do not love their children as they are, but nobody seeks to become a parent hoping their child will have severe developmental disabilities.…

In a better-constructed society, that child isn't dependent upon them alone their entire lives. "It takes a village" isn't just about things like education.

(I observe people struggling to care for elderly parents while also trying to be highly-successful rugged individuals and I'm struck by hoe, for want of a better phrase, anti-human that self-made goal is. Real people need help. In all stages of their lives. We have convinced ourselves that need is weakness).

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