I loved the book "How to know a person - The art of seeing others deeply and being deeply seen, David Brooks, 2023". I found truly interesting ways to look at the problem. By a professional of getting people to connect. Including issues such as how we see ourselves or how we see the world is not how it is (which applies to the person in front of us). Also a great discussion of culture vs individual. And plenty of tips for everyday usage. A useful piece of work.
What does connecting with someone mean?
101–110 of 119 posts
Re: What does connecting with someone mean?
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not the person you were replying to originally, I was providing context for who Daryl Davis is and what he has done That doesn't mean everyone else has to do the same thing, anymore than save the whales or end world hunger. Only that people aren't immutable and irredeemable and it's not fair to dismiss the idea of connecting with them as inherently ridiculous
Yes and because $TechFounder can drop out of school and become a multi billionaire, you can too. It’s “Survivorshio Bias” at its finest.
The narrative of the college dropout turning billionaire is a myth, at least insofar as it ignores their already wealthy family background. Nothing about survivorship in there.
Re: What does connecting with someone mean?
#103Re: What does connecting with someone mean?
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
" Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Sorry if I came across as criticizing a weak version of the rule. But I have had trouble trying to think of what a strong version might look like: "In most cases, if you don't like someone, then it just means you don't know them well enough" ? The assumption here seems to be that if you get to know someone well, then you will come to like them most of the time? I get that people are complicated but I don't think coming to understand a person more fully will necessarily lead to liking them more - but I suppose this depends on what type of person you are - someone who generally doesn't like people, or someone who is very picky etc, likely will not ever come to like most people even if they gain full knowledge of them, which makes the rule even more subjective.
On the other hand, some may argue that not liking someone means that you ought to study them more, which makes sense in the general sense of "you ought to know your enemy", but this seems incongruent with the original context of the quote.
I suppose I did oversimplify the rule in order to make it easier to apply, which reduces it to absurdity. But trying to find a way to make the rule work is also making my head hurt.
In any case I hereby apologize if I have broken any rules.
Re: What does connecting with someone mean?
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
well that's a dumb thing to do. you talk to people when you are in a friendly environment, on a shared activity, where you can make friends with them. you build a friendship first. you don't confront strangers on the street. again, do take a look at what daryl davis actually did. he most certainly did not walk into the middle of a kkk rally. and you don't have to follow his example by picking out the most difficult p…
Well it’s dumb to prostrate myself for people that hate me. Black people for decades since MLK have been told by the old guard to let folks beat them and they will eventually be nice to them. Now unfortunately liberals of all stripes think the same metaphorically. The people they are trying to extend a hand to are about retribution and cheering a leader who does so. It’s about as banal as the “thoughts and prayers” c…
You noticed that none of the people giving this advice here are minorities
well, that's trivially proven wrong by daryl davis himself. and there are others. of course most of them don't make the kind of publicity that it would take for us to find out about them. it is also easier to work in a group instead of as an individual. if you search you will find black communities doing outreach and seeking dialogue.
Re: What does connecting with someone mean?
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well it’s dumb to prostrate myself for people that hate me. Black people for decades since MLK have been told by the old guard to let folks beat them and they will eventually be nice to them. Now unfortunately liberals of all stripes think the same metaphorically. The people they are trying to extend a hand to are about retribution and cheering a leader who does so. It’s about as banal as the “thoughts and prayers” c…
You noticed that none of the people giving this advice here are minorities well, that's trivially proven wrong by daryl davis himself. and there are others. of course most of them don't make the kind of publicity that it would take for us to find out about them. it is also easier to work in a group instead of as an individual. if you search you will find black communities doing outreach and seeking dialogue.
Yes and it’s trivially proven wrong by Bill Gates that if I dropped out of school I could have become a billionaire…
And you still haven’t answered the question…have you reached out to people who hate you for who you are and tried to make friends with them?
And how often have you sat around having drinks with a group of successful, upper middle class Black people (well statistically well in the 80th-90th percentile income wise) who think it’s their responsible to change hearts and minds? I can guarantee you we all live our lives and spend no time worrying about rural America and their petty grievances.
The same is true when I go home to south GA for family get togethers. They are irrelevant to us.
Just to be absolutely clear, I’m an advocate for universal health care, better educating opportunities etc that uplifts everyone and have plenty of conservative non-MAGA friends.
Re: What does connecting with someone mean?
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
" Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Sorry if I came across as criticizing a weak version of the rule. But I have had trouble trying to think of what a strong version might look like: "In most cases, if you don't like someone, then it just means you don't know them well enough" ? The assumption here seems to be that if you get to know someone well, then you will come to like them most of the time? I get that people are complicated but I don't think comi…
No worries! If you had added a version of this current comment to the original one, i.e. if you had spelled out your underlying thinking more, it would have been fine. The issue from a moderation point of view is the reductionist/snarkyy/inflammatory style. It's not what we're going for, and it evokes worse from others.
In other words I think this is a case of the 'rebound' thing I posted about earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44687473.
p.s. Btw, I don't think the "I must get to know him better" line is intended as a rule (maybe the word 'must' is a bit misleading in there). It's more an expression of an attitude that one can choose to take or not. To quote that line is to say "this is how I want to be".
Re: What does connecting with someone mean?
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's little better than helping someone like that expand their understanding of the world and their place in it. In the end, influencing hearts and minds is one of the few things you can do that will have a lasting impact after you're gone.
This is honestly a naive take and probably comes from someone who is not a minority (I am) or someone who didn’t grow up in the south. It reminds me of the vomit inducing DEI training I was forced to endure and the “allyship” BS when I did my stint at BigTech between 2020-2023. There are deeply religious people who sincerely think from decades of growing up being indoctrinated in the church who believe that miscegena…
It's not naive to choose to see the best parts of people and hope that they can change to be the best version of themselves. Not everyone will change, but some will. When we let our damage accumulate to the point that we stop believing that we do a disservice to ourselves most of all. It doesn't mean we should march into a pit of bears wearing a pineapple glaze, it means that we hope for the best and don't let it break our spirit if we're wrong.
Re: What does connecting with someone mean?
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
You noticed that none of the people giving this advice here are minorities well, that's trivially proven wrong by daryl davis himself. and there are others. of course most of them don't make the kind of publicity that it would take for us to find out about them. it is also easier to work in a group instead of as an individual. if you search you will find black communities doing outreach and seeking dialogue.
Yes and it’s trivially proven wrong by Bill Gates that if I dropped out of school I could have become a billionaire… And you still haven’t answered the question…have you reached out to people who hate you for who you are and tried to make friends with them? And how often have you sat around having drinks with a group of successful, upper middle class Black people (well statistically well in the 80th-90th percentile i…
look, all i am saying is that if you want the world to change, you have to do something about it yourself. if you feel like you can't, then that's up to you. other people not caring and not doing anything is not an excuse. if everyone used that excuse then nothing would get done. and perhaps that is the reason why progress is so slow. to many people are just blaming others. if you want change you need to start with your own person. and again, i am not saying that you should talk to people that hate you directly all on your own. you are not the only one who wants change. that's a community project. so build a community. that's what i am doing where i am. and then as a community we can approach the haters.
the problem here is your negative attitude. it's self defeating. and your apparent lack of care for others. why? you think the grievances or rural america are petty? why? and how do you think you could get them to change that? if we want a better world then we need to address everyones grievances. either by actually solving them or empowering them to solve them for themselves or by getting them to change their minds about them. and again, i am not saying that you should do this by yourself. that's not something any individual can do on their own.
you also don't need to get directly involved with people who are not around you. but you could change your own attitude about it and you can encourage others to share that attitude. one by one, people will get up and start doing something. if you just sit there and complain then nothing will change.
the most important part though is to not give up. the first steps are the hardest. changing your own mind and developing the courage and desire to do something, against all odds. finding the first few friends that want to join you. but once you have a few friends, things do get easier. don't expect quick results. be steadfast. it may take months to even find one person willing to go with you. keep talking to people until you find them.
Re: What does connecting with someone mean?
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes and it’s trivially proven wrong by Bill Gates that if I dropped out of school I could have become a billionaire… And you still haven’t answered the question…have you reached out to people who hate you for who you are and tried to make friends with them? And how often have you sat around having drinks with a group of successful, upper middle class Black people (well statistically well in the 80th-90th percentile i…
look, all i am saying is that if you want the world to change, you have to do something about it yourself. if you feel like you can't, then that's up to you. other people not caring and not doing anything is not an excuse. if everyone used that excuse then nothing would get done. and perhaps that is the reason why progress is so slow. to many people are just blaming others. if you want change you need to start with y…
And you still refuse to answer the question - have you personally put yourself out there to talk to people that hate you because of who you are - the color if your skin? Your sexuality? Your religion?
Or do you think it’s the same thing about talking to people who believe differently on policy decisions and someone who fundamentally doesn’t believe that certain people have no right to exist “in their space” or don’t care or actively wants someone to suffer because who they are?
I can’t “address people’s grievances” that think I don’t belong to their group because of the color of my skin anymore than a gay person can “address grievances” of someone who thinks because of their sexuality that God is going to rain down hellfire and brimstone on the nation.
It’s about as bad as the conservatives “thoughts and prayers”. And honestly for you (because after repeatedly asking I assume) are a person who doesn’t have to deal with a systemic “ism” can tell a minority/non straight person or a non Christian that we should go out of our way to spend time with people that hate us is insulting.
I don’t “complain”. Were my still living parents generation who grew up in the Jim Crow south right to spend time and energy to fight for laws about equal access and treatment under the law? Of course. Should I champion policies that give everyone universal healthcare, fair treatment by the justice system, hiring practices, etc? - of course.
But why should I care about people’s attitude toward me not because of who I am but because of the color of my skin (and they probably see me as one of these “tech elites” too) or even 10 miles in the city of the suburbs I use to live in (look up Forsyth County GA being visited by Oprah Winfrey)? If they choose to remain ignorant and choose to suffer because they care more about politicians hurting others than helping them - so be it.
And what “attitude” should I change? That there are some “good Klansmen”? That there are some good people laughing about illegal immigrants getting eaten by alligators?
You can’t change these people’s minds. The best you can do is hope they don’t have a position of power and if they don’t, let them wallow in their own ignorance.