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AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

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Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#101

Post by DSingularity »

sebstefan wrote: post #97
linuxftw wrote: post #35

This is why tariffs matter. Despite the US having much higher wages, and likely property and infrastructure costs, manufacturing is only 5-20% more for these high tech products. Corporations outsourced not because they couldn't compete, but because why leave 10% on the table when we can reward the executives with that cash instead of the labor?

Tariffs don't work to bring manufacturing back home if they change every 2 weeks and are sure to disappear in 4 years You need to have reasonable certainty that your factory is going to be profitable on a 20+ year horizon to commit into building a production line. I don't understand how MAGAs don't get that.

You think a CPU factory won’t be profitable for 20 years? MAGA movement won’t listen to you here if we can’t even agree on basic facts.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#102

Post by doublepg23 »

seangrogg wrote: post #22

A 5-20% markup on CPUs isn't the worst thing, but those still need a mobo to socket into and as far as I'm aware we still don't have much capability on the availability of boards. Are there any companies that are spinning up board production, or even just broader consumer electronics in general (arduinos, pis, general controllers and the like)?

I think Supermicro does some production domestically.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#103

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

timmg wrote: post #34

What I really want to know, from someone who does know: Is Intel cooked? Like, will they be able to manufacture chips that compete with TSMC? They used to be a crown-jewel of US tech. But it seems like every time I read the news, they are announcing a delay or shutting down some product.

Intel made mistakes. TSMC can make mistakes. TSMC is also in geopolitically risky Taiwan. I'm not counting out Intel yet.

They're also very unpopular online so it's tough to find solid unbiased info about them. Like is the stink about 18A true or do people just want to hate on Intel?

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#104

Post by rkangel »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #69
CivBase wrote: post #24

5-20% more expensive? That's way cheaper than I expected. That's pretty good, especially for 4nm.

Even 5% more expensive means 80% of people buy the taiwan version for $475 instead of $500. 20% more expensive and 99.9% of people buy the $500 one instead of the $600 one. Never make the mistake of falling for people's virtue signalling and pay attention instead to how they actually apply those virtues (spoiler: saving money is the #1 acted upon virtue, being far stronger than any other).

If other people agree with Lia Siu about supply chain resiliency, presumably what will happen is that they buy from both. Maybe they buy more from Taiwan, but the effective price will be somewhere between the two.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#105

Post by hajile »

cheschire wrote: post #19
cm2012 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ocean shipping is very very cheap. Less cost in money and energy to ship a chip across the ocean than for you to drive to best buy to buy the phone its in.

Significantly more pollution though, right?

There are moves being made to test ships with modern "sails". Here's a paper published about a cargo ship fitted with 4 sails in 2010. The findings are interesting with it achieving up to 25% better fuel efficiency when using the sails.

https://www.stg-online.org/onTEAM/shipefficiency/programm/06...

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#106

Post by bugbuddy »

lukevp wrote: post #56
timmg wrote: post #34

What I really want to know, from someone who does know: Is Intel cooked? Like, will they be able to manufacture chips that compete with TSMC? They used to be a crown-jewel of US tech. But it seems like every time I read the news, they are announcing a delay or shutting down some product.

Intel is more than just fabs. AMD spun off digital foundry forever ago and just uses TSMC, no reason Intel couldn’t do the same. At this point their fabs are a liability. They have a new leader who’s from a semiconductor manufacturing background so I have some faith they’ll give up on the pursuit of next gen fabs and focus instead on their IP. There’s a huge opportunity in their GPU segment. They’ve gone from a joke…

>digital foundry

global* foundry

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#107

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

hajile wrote: post #89
timmg wrote: post #34

What I really want to know, from someone who does know: Is Intel cooked? Like, will they be able to manufacture chips that compete with TSMC? They used to be a crown-jewel of US tech. But it seems like every time I read the news, they are announcing a delay or shutting down some product.

Intel's fab issues are overstated in my opinion. They were stuck on 14nm for a very long time because they bit off too much with 10nm. People act like that means ALL research in nodes smaller than 10nm must have stopped, but that's simply not true as research into tech and materials needed for smaller nodes happens in parallel. It's also noteworthy that GAAFET being a complete redesign of major parts of the manufactu…

They just farmed out the compute section of Nova Lake to TSMC which is a sad statement (probably a good business decision, though).

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#108

Post by [deleted] »

sho_hn wrote: post #95
Workaccount2 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inability to make SOTA silicon chips domestically would be catastrophic in a event of a war in the east. TSMC is making fabs in the US, but they are not SOTA fabs. Those are kept in Taiwan.

A lot of the more complicated equipment in TSMC fabs (e.g. EUV equipment) is from Europe. Building a fab is no mean feat and loss of infra is a major blow, but it's certainly not impossible to build these fabs in the West, just not economical. You are not starting from scratch.

[deleted]

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#109

Post by lallysingh »

riehwvfbk wrote: post #94
tester756 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ISA is irrelevant It's like saying that programming language syntax/keywords are better than the other. Everything is about compiler, lib, runtime, etc. https://chipsandcheese.com/p/arm-or-x86-isa-doesnt-matter Also some people say that RISC-V is the way to go

And yet Itanium flopped.

They required unreasonable things from the compiler for instruction scheduling.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#110

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #58
timmg wrote: post #34

What I really want to know, from someone who does know: Is Intel cooked? Like, will they be able to manufacture chips that compete with TSMC? They used to be a crown-jewel of US tech. But it seems like every time I read the news, they are announcing a delay or shutting down some product.

> used to be a crown-jewel of US tech I feel like x86 itself is kinda legacy tech. So while AMD has made advancements, they're somewhat in the same boat as Intel. It seems like NVIDIA and Micron are the real "crown jewels" of US tech

modern x86 chips (for a long time really) are hybrid CISC/RISC at the hardware level. It's at the microcode that the ISA lives and that's changeable.
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