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12ft.io Taken Down

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Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#101

Post by Crespyl »

NicuCalcea wrote: post #94
m82labs wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want RSS with micropayments. I want to consume information in my own interface, and am willing to pay. I am not willing to pay for a full subscription to a publication when I only find a few articles a year that I want to read. I want Spotify for text, but with a business model that makes sense for all involved.

Micropayments have been tried plenty of times and never succeeded. People say they'd be willing to pay, but they're not.

If it was trivial for me to spend 5 cents for a one off article that someone recommended me, I probably wouldn't mind it at all. Payment processor fees make that essentially impossible, requiring more thought and investment in systems like Flattr to group together the small payments.

We need to decouple online payment infrastructure from the duopoly/oligopoly of private corporations that control how and when users can exchange money online.

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#102

Post by BizarroLand »

0x5FC3 wrote: post #3

We all hate adverts, some of us don't like or can't pay. Those who pay, have access to a few publications they enjoy. It would be absurd to pay for all the publications, all the streaming services, but we don't want monopolies either. What could be a solution for this madness?

The real answer is that we need a universal web currency, and a tracker that pays web pages on view.

There would be 2 webs. A free web, and a paid web. The paid web would set a cost per page and if you wanted to view the page you would pay the cost.

No more month to month flat fee, if you watch non-stop videos, you pay non-stop video prices.

No more unlimited anything on the paid web, but the trade off would be that there are no more ads.

Of course, the paid web would hate the existence of the free web and spend untold fortunes to destroy it, as any time you can get something for free instead of paying for it is a potential loss of income for them.

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#103

Post by tyzoid »

Aurornis wrote: post #39
tyzoid wrote: post #25

The problem is there's not really a good way to subscribe to these things. I'd gladly pay a nominal fee (~$6 USD/mo) for access to media, but I'm not about to subscribe individually to each site. Ideally, I'd subscribe to a single service and payment is split across the various sites in proportion to how many articles I read from each site. There was a service that promised this a while back, but IIRC mozilla bought…

> I'd gladly pay a nominal fee (~6/mo) for access to media, but I'm not about to subscribe individually to each site. Ideally, I'd subscribe to a single service and payment is split across the various sites in proportion to how many articles I read from each site. How many sites would you end up splitting that across? For people who click a lot of links on Hacker News or other social media that could be a dozen or mo…

Upper-end estimates for typical web traffic CPC/CPM rates are around 10¢ per click and 0.5¢ per impression. I never click on ads, but let's hypothesize that with very-well targeted ads 5% of people click through. That ends up at around an estimated 1¢ per page view. Even at 5x that rate, I'd be able to read 1000 articles ($5 USD) before even approaching the $6 USD/mo rate I think is reasonable.

That's over 30 articles per day, again at a 5x rate than advertising will return. Will there users that read vastly more than that? Sure. But there's also many readers that will under-utilize the service too.

Just take a look at how YouTube Premium is doing, many creators report that their premium revenue vastly outpaces ad-supported viewers on a per-view basis.

If the revenue doesn't make sense, then you could supplement the revenue with ads for users who exceed a soft cap, or have tiered subscriptions. Something like a basic (1k articles per month)ad-supported subscription for $4, basic ad-free for $6, and unlimited ad-free for $10.

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#105

Post by h2zizzle »

NicuCalcea wrote: post #100
PaulHoule wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dirty secret is that the news media needs archive.today in order to function. Anyone writing an article about subject Y needs to know what every paper wrote about it. Back in the 00's it got out that you could log into almost any newspaper web site with "media/media", something that got clamped down on when it got out. You'd think The New York Times could afford to get a subscription to other newspapers for their…

Most newsrooms have access to LexisNexis or a similar service, so they have access to other paper's stories. My old newsroom also directly paid for subscriptions to other newspapers, it's not uncommon.

Bit of a hassle, though? My college had access to a ton of publications through this or that subscription, and it was so, so much more simple to just hit up z-lib or whatever, especially when away from the library.

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#106

Post by mbirth »

m82labs wrote: post #80
0x5FC3 wrote: post #3

We all hate adverts, some of us don't like or can't pay. Those who pay, have access to a few publications they enjoy. It would be absurd to pay for all the publications, all the streaming services, but we don't want monopolies either. What could be a solution for this madness?

I want RSS with micropayments. I want to consume information in my own interface, and am willing to pay. I am not willing to pay for a full subscription to a publication when I only find a few articles a year that I want to read. I want Spotify for text, but with a business model that makes sense for all involved.

Does somebody remember the service Flattr from a decade ago? You’d set a fixed amount to pay every month. Like a subscription.

Then, this amount got distributed between the sites you visited. If you only visited one site, they would get everything. 2 different websites = 50% each. And so on. This way there were no surprises in your monthly spending. I still see this as a pretty ideal model.

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#107

Post by tukantje »

yegle wrote: post #43
0x5FC3 wrote: post #3

We all hate adverts, some of us don't like or can't pay. Those who pay, have access to a few publications they enjoy. It would be absurd to pay for all the publications, all the streaming services, but we don't want monopolies either. What could be a solution for this madness?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Contributor The basic idea is that you as a user can also participate in the ads bidding, and if you wins, the ad space will be replaced by a static image. To the website owner this is revenue neutral. I'm not sure why it was discontinued. I still have fond memories of this service.

Most likely reason why it'd be discontinued is that it makes rest of the ads less valuable; so to speak.

People who can afford to & are willing to pay for something like this; tend to also be the type of people advertisers want to actually target: disposable income, willing to spend etc.

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#108

Post by rsingel »

m82labs wrote: post #80
0x5FC3 wrote: post #3

We all hate adverts, some of us don't like or can't pay. Those who pay, have access to a few publications they enjoy. It would be absurd to pay for all the publications, all the streaming services, but we don't want monopolies either. What could be a solution for this madness?

I want RSS with micropayments. I want to consume information in my own interface, and am willing to pay. I am not willing to pay for a full subscription to a publication when I only find a few articles a year that I want to read. I want Spotify for text, but with a business model that makes sense for all involved.

Unfortunately you aren't willing to pay enough.

Micro payments for journalism don't work

Re: 12ft.io Taken Down

#110

Post by gsf_emergency_2 »

PaulHoule wrote: post #87
vasco wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only long term solution is to stop sharing paywalled content.

The dirty secret is that the news media needs archive.today in order to function. Anyone writing an article about subject Y needs to know what every paper wrote about it. Back in the 00's it got out that you could log into almost any newspaper web site with "media/media", something that got clamped down on when it got out. You'd think The New York Times could afford to get a subscription to other newspapers for their…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37009598

Russians will have to make one

https://archive.today/gyrovague.com/2023/08/05/archive-today...

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