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How does a screen work?

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Re: How does a screen work?

#101
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only recently found out that the tech to save images wasn’t invented, so they couldn’t display a revolving logo between shows. So… so the BBC had a permanent real-life logo with a permanent camera in front of it. So yes, any image was extremely ephemeral at the time. PS: Apparently it’s called a Noddy, it’s a video camera controlled by a servomotor to pan and tilt (or 'nod', hence the name Noddy): https://en.wikipe…

I don’t think that was why the Noddy was used. At the time film and projection were available. They could have recorded film and projected onto a sensor for re-broadcast. The Noddy was used since it was a live broadcast and “allowed the idents to be of no fixed length as the clock symbols could continue for many minutes at a time”. So, it’s not really because they couldn’t store video. It’s because they needed an ind…

Film wears out through repeated use. While a loop of film would have been theoretically possible, the tech to transmit it would have required just as much TV camera electronic equipment, plus a complex film projection device; the film would have gradually gotten scratched and picked up dust and worn out, and it would have had a great many failure modes.

In contrast, pointing a TV camera at a spinning globe was much easier. And for showing the time, pointing at a physical clock was much easier than, what, having twelve hours of film footage available and having to synch the right frame?

I think what’s maybe more surprising for people than that moving station idents were typically in camera props, is that broadcasting even a static image pre-digital was also much more easily accomplished by just pointing a camera at a piece of card - even repeating a single frame over and over again was not something that could be easily reproduced some other way; having a camera continually capture and immediately broadcast the frame was just much easier.

Video tape, once it came in, allowed freeze frames but continually reading from the same spot on a tape caused wear so you couldn’t rely on being able to show a single frame from tape indefinitely.

Digital freeze frame machines that could capture a frame of video and repeatedly play it back from a memory buffer only started showing up in the 1980s.

Re: How does a screen work?

#102
post #85
post #31

CRT displays are one of those analog technologies that are arguably much cooler than their digital successors. Think – a literan raygun, a particle accelerator, inside your monitor, creating the image you're looking at.

It's much cooler if you haven't used it. That mass of a 19in was crazy. Then you had all of those that had the high pitched noise. And if you were unlucky you had to degauss them. Cool concept, but in practice the digital successors are better.

"I was there" too and somehow this is not my reaction at all.

Everyone knows the obvious reasons we don't use crts any more.

It's true but it's a most uninteresting observation that only cares about practical aspects. Practical aspects matter, none of my own desks has a crt, but they do not define life itself.

Those facts do not at all invalidate the point about the desirable aspects which have been lost, or the fact that the merely interesting and remarkable aspects are interesting and remarkable.

The desirable and/or interesting and remarkable features of a crt are still cool, impressive, fun, desirable, even though we all voluntarily choose to use something else basically everywhere we want a screen because of the practical reasons that just happen to overwhelm.

Re: How does a screen work?

#103
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regarding CRTs, at the vector CRTs section, they mention "they were mostly monochrome and so the phosphor dots could be tightly packed" - this is not true either I believe, monochrome CRTs had a uniform phosphor coat on the inside, no pixel patches. This is one of the reasons why emulated versions of Asteroids (arcade game) can never match the real thing: the razor-sharp, perfectly straight lines with zero aliasing…

My first and only time playing Asteroids in its original vector CRT glory was a bit shocking to me. I remember the evolution of CRTs in the 80s and 90s. My family had a small B&W CRT that fascinated me with its image quality, in that it always reminded me more of a b&w photo than color CRTs reminded me of color photos. Still, that vector CRT that I saw perhaps a dozen years ago was quite a surprise. Lack of rastering…

I had similar reactions, only it all happened while I was in grade school!

Oh yes! The bright projectiles really add to the game impact. And on some cabinets, the lines were not perfectly straight. It looked for all the world like the phosphor coating had a bit of texture to it. Now being older, I realize an effect like that could just be a marginal DAC too.

IMHO the best vector experiences, in order are:

STAR WARS

This is a color vector display cranked up to the nines! The processor handling the vector drawing is fast! Tons of vectors are possible with only subtle impact on display refresh speed and overall quality. There is some global image size artifacts that happen when some of the brightest objects occupy a significant percentage of the display.

And that is a feature! Love it. Get into a sit down cabinet if you ever get the chance.

TEMPEST

This game is not for everyone. Most of these drive people to their limits, but TEMPEST ramps up and beyond normal human limits! Not everyone can play this game at its peak. Same can be said of nearly everything on this list, but without that aggressive ramp up.

ASTEROIDS

I prefer the original cabinet with the somewhat slower object motion. That one is a bit easier to play. Depending on the operator and how hard they drive the CRT, image brightness ranges from a bit old, washed out and tired looking to WOW! How do those tiny projectiles not just carve a line right into the phosphors.

Cinematronics games: TAIL GUNNER, STAR CASTLE, RIP OFF.

These use overlays for a bit of color. Oh, I forgot ARMOR ATTACK, which uses large ones like STAR CASTLE.

The quality of the vectors is not quite as good as the ATARI displays and this too is a feature. That gives Cinematronics a bit of charm I find quite enjoyable

And sound! Hoo boy! STAR CASTLE has great, loud --> I mean loud sounds with full bass notes able to rumble you and the cabinet!

OTHER COLOR VECTOR GAMES

I like playing all of these, but they simply were not peak experiences. Still damn good, if you ask me:

MAJOR HAVOC, GRAVITAR, A Two Player tandem Asteroids game I cannot recall. Fun though!

And last place: QUANTUM played with the Trackball. You circle atoms over and over. This game looks cool and is hard.

GRAVITAR uses the Asteroids movement dynamics to great effect! A fun thing in this game is massive changes in scale happen often. Rare to see.

Vector gaming delivered many of my very highly cherished arcade gaming experiences for sure.

ATARI and Tektronix deserve special mention in this context:

Atari made color vector games work! Did anyone else? Those look amazing! And hold up today in my view.

Tektronix invented both a pure storage tube CRT. Their graphics terminals often doubled as Minicomputers programmable in Tek Basic. The large ones offered a 4K vector space! Crazy good detail for the 70's. And one in good condition, operating in a reduced light room is beautiful to use.

My first manufacturing CAM software experience was on one of these. Used a fixed record length cassette so that many "files" could be accessed almost like a floppy disk drive. User data went right to the paper tape puncher / reader. 1200 baud punch, reads could be faster, up to 9600, if one had a good reader unit.

One ran applications from that cassette and stored and used user data from the paper tape.

But I digress!

Right near the end, Tek managed to get both storage graphics and dynamic refresh capable graphics, both in a different color. I only got to use one of those one time. I loved it because many different work flows were possible.

Man, for the chance to code a UI on one today!

One last thought: in my view vector displays are best on a CRT, mostly because of the image contrast and speed possible, but great vector experiences can also be had on a wall, or perhaps a screen with some coating to bring out the best possible.

We may yet see vectors appear from time to time in these and other ways simply because of how great they are. Hope so, and building a small, color capable one using a low power laser and screen with coatings sure to deliver motion trails is on ky bucket list.

Re: How does a screen work?

#105
post #94
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that really helps LCDs primary downsides of poor contrast ratio and relatively high energy consumption. Backlit displays will always inherently score worse on these metrics vs self emissive displays.

The energy efficiency of LCDs is very good, typically better than OLED screens, except on very dark content.

LCDs as a transmissive display technology work by emitting a bunch of photons and then selectively filtering some out to achieve the desired color / pixel brightness. Any filtered photon is wasted energy, this is inherent to the display technology and is not limited to dark content, just exacerbated by it.

Given that, all things equal there is no way for LCD to equal the efficiency of a self emissive display, at best it's a question of when will the luminous efficiency of OLED exceed that of white/blue backlight LEDs... and honestly we're likely already at or past that point.

Re: How does a screen work?

#106
post #95
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that really helps LCDs primary downsides of poor contrast ratio and relatively high energy consumption. Backlit displays will always inherently score worse on these metrics vs self emissive displays.

>downsides of poor contrast ratio In terms of TV. LCD have higher peak brightness. The Sony Bravia 10 will be out soon, hopefully it will showcase the world what LCD could be. Not to mention cheaper at larger size panel.

peak brightness is not contrast. If anything higher peaks mean worse contrast, even for systems with local dimming zones due to bleed between zones / gradients in display content which do not align with backlight zones.

Re: How does a screen work?

#107
post #105
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The energy efficiency of LCDs is very good, typically better than OLED screens, except on very dark content.

LCDs as a transmissive display technology work by emitting a bunch of photons and then selectively filtering some out to achieve the desired color / pixel brightness. Any filtered photon is wasted energy, this is inherent to the display technology and is not limited to dark content, just exacerbated by it. Given that, all things equal there is no way for LCD to equal the efficiency of a self emissive display, at best…

> Given that, all things equal there is no way for LCD to equal the efficiency of a self emissive display

The backlight LEDs are just much more efficient than OLEDs. The power consumption of TVs / monitors is a well known quantity.

Re: How does a screen work?

#108
post #31

CRT displays are one of those analog technologies that are arguably much cooler than their digital successors. Think – a literan raygun, a particle accelerator, inside your monitor, creating the image you're looking at.

Another thing is HDD, think about it, a reading head that flies only few nanometers above the disk. And somehow small vibration does not affect it.

Re: How does a screen work?

#110
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regarding CRTs, at the vector CRTs section, they mention "they were mostly monochrome and so the phosphor dots could be tightly packed" - this is not true either I believe, monochrome CRTs had a uniform phosphor coat on the inside, no pixel patches. This is one of the reasons why emulated versions of Asteroids (arcade game) can never match the real thing: the razor-sharp, perfectly straight lines with zero aliasing…

My first and only time playing Asteroids in its original vector CRT glory was a bit shocking to me. I remember the evolution of CRTs in the 80s and 90s. My family had a small B&W CRT that fascinated me with its image quality, in that it always reminded me more of a b&w photo than color CRTs reminded me of color photos. Still, that vector CRT that I saw perhaps a dozen years ago was quite a surprise. Lack of rastering…

> My family had a small B&W CRT that fascinated me with its image quality, in that it always reminded me more of a b&w photo than color CRTs reminded me of color photos.

The problem of a finite dot pitch interfering with image quality, especially on small displays where the dots were necessarily larger relative to the image size, is what motivated Tektronix to develop field-sequential color CRTs which they used in their digital oscilloscopes in the 80s and 90s. JVC also used the technology in some professional broadcast video monitors. Basically it was a B&W CRT with a changeable (liquid crystal) color filter in front of it. The R, G, and B channels would be shown one after another with the corresponding filter activated, in a similar manner to a color wheel DLP projector.

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