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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#101

Post by jerlam »

lispisok wrote: post #94
brandall10 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better, a 3 year old used car with low miles. In 2016 I picked up a 2013 320i Sport w/ 22k miles on the clock for $18.5k. The sticker on the car was just over $36k. I did have to fly to a relatively remote town (Ogden Utah) and drive it home to San Diego, so that was an extra $320 for the plane ticket/shuttle/gas and 14 hours out of a saturday. It was almost out of warranty, so pre-purchase I paid a local shop $…

I looked into that when I was buying a car in 2020 and I found the price discount wasnt nearly as big as I thought it was going to be plus the car was out of warranty plus all the parts now had 10k miles of wear on them. A new set of tires is like $1200. I was able to spend a few grand more for a brand new car of the same model.

Used car prices went through the roof in 2020-2022 for pandemic-related reasons, so trying to take any lesson from that era is unhelpful.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#102

Post by beeflet »

jfengel wrote: post #46
999900000999 wrote: post #8

We don't want affordable Chinese EVs. That's the answer here. They can build cars better, cheaper, faster than we can. Instead Ford wants to sell a 80k SUPER F-250 BIG MANN TRUCK. All for what, you to drive 10 minutes to Walmart, buy groceries and drive back. The best car is the one you don't own. No payments, insurance, parking tickets. Unfortunately most American cities are centered around driving. So much money ,…

I have never seen the bed of a Cybertruck. Not a dig at the vehicle; that's a different thing. Rather, I notice that this truck doesn't seem to spend much time as a, ya know, truck. With other trucks it's less obvious because they don't have a built in bed cover. I suspect many of them also spent very little time trucking, at least here in this suburb. Perhaps it's different in more agricultural areas.

Usually I would consider such a large truck to be wasteful, but because it's electric you aren't really burning up a ton of extra fuel.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#103

Post by beeflet »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #61
vovavili wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do want cheap Chinese EVs. I can't buy them because of government regulation.

I'd prefer to have cheap U.S. cars ... but I suspect we won't seem them until the threat of cheap Chinese cars becomes a reality.

there are companies like slate auto trying this model in the USA, but who knows how that will play out.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#104

Post by baby_souffle »

msgodel wrote: post #29
snovymgodym wrote: post #7

It's pretty simple (in the US, can't speak for elsewhere). There are 2 big factors at play: 1. Margins. Manufacturers make huge margins on expensive vehicles and very slim margins on cheap vehicles. The numbers differ, but I think even in the lead up to the 2008 crisis automakers had to sell 5-10 "econobox" cars to make the profit they made on one luxury car, SUV, or truck. 2. Normalization of debt. For many American…

>having a monthly car payment in perpetuity is considered acceptable. I think that really depends on what part of America. At least where I grew up around a bunch of middle class conservatives listening to eg Dave Ramsey (who has other problems IMO) most people think of you as reckless/irresponsible for doing that sort of thing.

> I think that really depends on what part of America.

And the age of the cohort... Millennials (1980 to '95-ish) have had student loans since as far back as they can remember. What's _another_ never-ending monthly payment?

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#105

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #54
snovymgodym wrote: post #7

It's pretty simple (in the US, can't speak for elsewhere). There are 2 big factors at play: 1. Margins. Manufacturers make huge margins on expensive vehicles and very slim margins on cheap vehicles. The numbers differ, but I think even in the lead up to the 2008 crisis automakers had to sell 5-10 "econobox" cars to make the profit they made on one luxury car, SUV, or truck. 2. Normalization of debt. For many American…

I think the cost of a car is a huge drag on the upward mobility on the lower income earners in the U.S.

So do the cost of cigarettes and alcohol. Things they burn a larger proportion of their money on than higher earners.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#106

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

roxolotl wrote: post #75
JKCalhoun wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the cost of a car is a huge drag on the upward mobility on the lower income earners in the U.S.

100%. And it doesn’t help that large cars as a cultural touchstone/status symbol really took off. Even if a $25k car existed most people wouldn’t buy it(even if they “should”).

The base Ford Maverick just edged over $25K for 2024. Now it's $26K. It's not a "real truck" but considerably larger than any econobox.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#107

Post by haskellandchill »

aorloff wrote: post #74

Nobody else has said it so I guess I will. The reason the US car industry does not want a $25k car is that the financing opportunities are crap for a car of this low cost. In the same way that airlines exist to offer you a miles based credit card, the US car dealerships survive by offering you a loan for the car. Or perhaps, a car to go with your structured finance opportunity.

proud owner of a financed 2024 manual nissan versa here :) but yeah the dealership made almost no money and I put down a deposit when it was a couple months from coming in at a location far from where I live. it's a $20k car though.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#109

Post by milesrout »

whycome wrote: post #100
SJC_Hacker wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Houses are debt, but are generally and appreciating asset Cars are a depreciating asset. It usually does not make sense to go into debt to get one

It’s interesting how the language allows a weird cognitive out. It’s not debt, it’s a mortgage and they ‘own’ the home.

Nobody said it isn't debt. The difference is that it is debt that makes sense: you can't realistically buy land without it, and houses tend to appreciate so the interest costs are less of a problem - they just represent the time value of money.

Most other debts people incur personally are to buy things they could save for, which go down in value. Like cars.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#110

Post by darth_avocado »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #105
JKCalhoun wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the cost of a car is a huge drag on the upward mobility on the lower income earners in the U.S.

So do the cost of cigarettes and alcohol. Things they burn a larger proportion of their money on than higher earners.

False equivalence. You can do without cigarettes and alcohol, but not without cars in majority of the United States. Only about 10% of the adults smoke vs car ownership in American households is 90% with almost 40% owning more than one car. Comparing what you necessity with a discretionary expense isn’t fair.
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