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The White House just open sourced their first Github repo

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Re: The White House just open sourced their first Github repo

#101

Post by nirvana »

waterside81 wrote: post #50
sneak wrote: post #34

Who cares? This is boring code. Save all the "it portends an open government!" handwaving for once the Obama admin does something _actually_ meaningful (in a positive way - starting a new war doesn't count). Seriously. Much ado about a Drupal module that is used for people to petition the government to be patronized and ignored.

That's a pretty cynical way of viewing things. Take a look at the big picture: the highest office in the land (world?) is doing what we here on HN do: push public code, accept feedback, leverage open source etc. It's a fantastic start towards a new paradigm of open source code in public places. This should be celebrated; a new generation of people are running things now. It can only get better.

You just said "a fantastic start towards a new paradigm" about something that happened 3.5 years into a 4 year presidential term, with an election coming up.

I don't think a new generation is running things. That kennedy camelot spin was used in 2008, but it is 2012 now, and I don't see any evidence to support it. (EG: Pick your issue, Marijuana dispensaries are getting raided, the PATRIOT act has been expanded, the Afghan war is expanded, the TSA is now molesting and taking nude images of travelers, etc.)

Re: The White House just open sourced their first Github repo

#102

Post by wprater »

ef4 wrote: post #49

> "President Obama is committed to creating the most open and participatory government in our nation’s history" I'll believe that when his administration stops being one of the most secretive and most aggressive prosecutors of whistleblowers in recent history. Sources: http://www.salon.com/2012/02/09/obamas_unprecedented_war_on_... http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/06/obamas-whistlebl... http://tpmmuckraker.ta…

Seriously.. putting their petition software online is hardly creating an [open and participatory] government we can trust.

Re: The White House just open sourced their first Github repo

#104

Post by mseebach »

atlassic wrote: post #77
ef4 wrote: post #49

> "President Obama is committed to creating the most open and participatory government in our nation’s history" I'll believe that when his administration stops being one of the most secretive and most aggressive prosecutors of whistleblowers in recent history. Sources: http://www.salon.com/2012/02/09/obamas_unprecedented_war_on_... http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/06/obamas-whistlebl... http://tpmmuckraker.ta…

I'm consistently amazed at how agencies full of information security experts, who understand that security by obscurity is the bottom of the barrel of fake security, nonetheless believe that keeping information secret from citizens is the best way to keep the country safe.

If your objective is to keep information secret, then keeping information secret isn't "security through obscurity". And while governments certainly do stuff they shouldn't be doing, and take advantage of the significant security apparatus at their disposal to do so, I don't buy the idea that governments don't, like most other organizations, need a shield of privacy to conduct it's business, including the significant legitimate bits of it, effectively.

Re: The White House just open sourced their first Github repo

#105

Post by thinkingisfun »

ef4 wrote: post #49

> "President Obama is committed to creating the most open and participatory government in our nation’s history" I'll believe that when his administration stops being one of the most secretive and most aggressive prosecutors of whistleblowers in recent history. Sources: http://www.salon.com/2012/02/09/obamas_unprecedented_war_on_... http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/06/obamas-whistlebl... http://tpmmuckraker.ta…

I think they mean participation in that you can choose the left or the right lane of the conveyor belt to the butcher house; it's not about addressing actual stuff. You just have to keep up with the newspeak and it all makes perfect sense.

Re: The White House just open sourced their first Github repo

#106

Post by thinkingisfun »

daenz wrote: post #12

And, in the spirit of the project, they'll reject all pull requests with a patronizing response about the way things are.[1][2] 1. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/legalize-and-regul... 2. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/abolish-tsa-and-us...

"Unfortunately, you can't vote the rascals out, because you never voted them in, in the first place." -- Noam Chomsky

Re: The White House just open sourced their first Github repo

#107

Post by thinkingisfun »

Here's the quote I was looking for.

"A totalitarian state simply enunciates official doctrine -- clearly, explicitly. Internally, one can think what one likes, but one can only express opposition at one's peril. In a democratic system of propaganda no one is punished (in theory) for objecting to official dogma. In fact, dissidence is encouraged. What this system attempts to do is to fix the limits of possible thought: supporters of official doctrine at one end, and the critics -- vigorous, courageous, and much admired for their independence of judgment -- at the other. The hawks and the doves. But we discover that all share certain tacit assumptions, and that it is these assumptions that are really crucial. No doubt a propaganda system is more effective when its doctrines are insinuated rather than asserted, when it sets the bounds for possible thought rather than simply imposing a clear and easily identifiable doctrine that one must parrot -- or suffer the consequences. The more vigorous the debate, the more effectively the basic doctrines of the propaganda system, tacitly assumed on all sides, are instilled. Hence the elaborate pretense that the press is a critical dissenting force -- maybe even too critical for the health of democracy -- when in fact it is almost entirely subservient to the basic principles of the ideological system: in this case, the principle of the right of intervention, the unique right of the United States to serve as global judge and executioner. It is quite a marvelous system of indoctrination."

-- Noam Chomsky, "Language and Responsibility" (1977)

But of course, that was then, today it's totally different, right? Right.

Re: The White House just open sourced their first Github repo

#108

Post by ceejayoz »

daenz wrote: post #54
purephase wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just stupid. As if the developers involved, who are likely proud of their work and the go-ahead to release it to the community, have anything to do with the petition outcomes. People need to think things through sometimes.

It raises awareness of the issue. Why should any self-respecting developer want to contribute to a code base that does nothing but facilitate the government ignoring peoples' grievances, while at the same time making them feel like they are participating?

> It raises awareness of the issue.

OK, I'll bite. Who is now aware of the issue who wasn't previously?

Re: The White House just open sourced their first Github repo

#109

Post by lylejohnson »

ceejayoz wrote: post #108
daenz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It raises awareness of the issue. Why should any self-respecting developer want to contribute to a code base that does nothing but facilitate the government ignoring peoples' grievances, while at the same time making them feel like they are participating?

> It raises awareness of the issue. OK, I'll bite. Who is now aware of the issue who wasn't previously?

Are you suggesting that the President doesn't read these pull requests?

Re: The White House just open sourced their first Github repo

#110

Post by purephase »

ceejayoz wrote: post #108
daenz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It raises awareness of the issue. Why should any self-respecting developer want to contribute to a code base that does nothing but facilitate the government ignoring peoples' grievances, while at the same time making them feel like they are participating?

> It raises awareness of the issue. OK, I'll bite. Who is now aware of the issue who wasn't previously?

You're right. It does nothing except belittle the efforts of the developers. They're trying to make their work more open which should be applauded. Just because the entire administration does not adhere to their stated philosophy, doesn't mean that we (the developer community) should be jumping on those who are at least making an attempt.

The majority of HN readers and GH users would immediately close issues / pull requests like this and be bitter about it. I don't understand why there is a double standard being applied here.

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