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Malleable software: Restoring user agency in a world of locked-down apps

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Re: Malleable software: Restoring user agency in a world of locked-down apps

#101

Post by marklar423 »

Sophira wrote: post #73

I've reverse-engineered a couple of programs before in order to get them to do what I want. Things like setting default options in a program that doesn't let you change the defaults, or getting older Windows programs to function correctly. I've also patched open-source programs locally in order to get them to do what I want but wouldn't be suitable for upstreaming. For example, I've reverted the order of buttons in a…

Do you think it's possible to make GUI software with a Unix philosophy? Specifically piping together small programs seems natural in a shell but I've struggled to figure out how it could work for GUI apps.

Re: Malleable software: Restoring user agency in a world of locked-down apps

#102

Post by moughxyz »

WillAdams wrote: post #10

A tool which looks at this sort of thing which was mentioned here recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44118159 but which didn't seem to get much traction is: https://pontus.granstrom.me/scrappy/ but it pretty much only works for JavaScript programmers and their friends (or folks interested in learning JavaScript). Other tools which I'd like to put forward as meriting discussion in this context include: - L…

Viberunner is another stab at this idea: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44236729

Re: Malleable software: Restoring user agency in a world of locked-down apps

#103

Post by WillAdams »

392 wrote: post #100
WillAdams wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I just wish it had a Bézier curve object.... I need an interactive tool for programming such (or I need to buckle down and implement the METAFONT algorithm in my current project).

Tove2d editor demo?

Interesting, trying to research and look into that now --- good starting link and suggestion for approach?

Re: Malleable software: Restoring user agency in a world of locked-down apps

#104

Post by localhost »

rerdavies wrote: post #85

I hope you're looking carefully at COM/OLE Automation, which achieved pretty much all of those things. - In-process and cross-process language-agnostic API bindings. - Elaborate support for marshalling objects and complex datastructures across process boundaries. - Standardized ways to declare application and document object models that can be used by external applications, or internally by application add-ons. - A s…

I used to own COM at Microsoft; I think that MCP is the current re-instantiation of the ideas from COM and that English is now the new scripting language.

Re: Malleable software: Restoring user agency in a world of locked-down apps

#105

Post by josephg »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #74
trinsic2 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with that. Computer users are shaped by the tools that they have available to them. There is always going to be a varying of degrees on how much a user gets in customization, but when the environment is designed around customization, users end up using the tools that are given to them.

I’m not disagreeing with you, but rather suggesting that the ceiling for how much the average user can/will leverage customization is surprisingly low. If we’re looking for levers to pull to help more people become advanced computer users, I believe progressive disclosure combined with design that takes advantage of natural human inclinations (association, spatial memory, etc) are much more powerful. Some of the most…

> I’m not disagreeing with you, but rather suggesting that the ceiling for how much the average user can/will leverage customization is surprisingly low.

The average person is also a crappy writer, bad musician and lousy carpenter. But a notepad and a pen don’t tell me how to use them. They don’t limit my creative capacity. Same story with a piano, or a hammer and chisel. I wish computers were more like that.

Your point stands. Most notebook users never use it to write a bestselling novel, or draw like Picasso. But the invitation to try is still in the medium somehow. Just waiting for the right hand.

I agree with the rest of your comment. As software engineers, we could build any software we want for ourselves. It’s telling that we choose to use tools like git and IntelliJ. Stuff that takes months or years to master. I think it’s weirdly perverted to imagine the best software for everyone else is maximally dumbed down. Thats not what users want.

Rather than aiming for “software that is easy to use” I think we should be aiming for “software that rewards you for learning”. At least, in creative work. I’m personally far more interested in making the software equivalent of piano than I am in making the software equivalent of a television set.

Re: Malleable software: Restoring user agency in a world of locked-down apps

#106

Post by carlosjobim »

fernmyth wrote: post #63

As described in the article, sharing data between apps is currently impossible. I wish Solid/PODs had taken off, but I get the sense that project spent more time on ontologies and less on making useful things. How can we draw apps into using a common data backend owned by the user?

Almost all apps I use can export their data into common and open formats. If you make your workflow around common file formats instead of specific apps, then you can easier share data between apps.

Re: Malleable software: Restoring user agency in a world of locked-down apps

#107

Post by rustcleaner »

marklar423 wrote: post #101
Sophira wrote: post #73

I've reverse-engineered a couple of programs before in order to get them to do what I want. Things like setting default options in a program that doesn't let you change the defaults, or getting older Windows programs to function correctly. I've also patched open-source programs locally in order to get them to do what I want but wouldn't be suitable for upstreaming. For example, I've reverted the order of buttons in a…

Do you think it's possible to make GUI software with a Unix philosophy? Specifically piping together small programs seems natural in a shell but I've struggled to figure out how it could work for GUI apps.

Copy ComfyUI's paradigm of connected components.

Re: Malleable software: Restoring user agency in a world of locked-down apps

#108

Post by 1899-12-30 »

mynegation wrote: post #62

Give me Delphi. No, seriously, give me Delphi, but for the web and in a modern popular programming language. Python would be great, but I will not turn my nose away from TypeScript or Go or Lua. For those who don’t know, Delphi was (is?) a visual constructor for Windows apps that you outfitted with a dialect of Pascal. It was effing magic! Nowadays the web ecosystem is so fast-paced and so fragmented, the choice is p…

Your best bet might be using blazor with a rad development tool, though I haven't tried it. blazor notably has devexpress components, which is what makes delphi tolerable.

Re: Malleable software: Restoring user agency in a world of locked-down apps

#109

Post by kylecazar »

I agree with all of the assertions about what software should be.

But... I think a lot of it already is customizable, and users don't want to configure. End-users (or doctors) hate having to learn more about software than they absolutely must. Just an example, Epic (EHR from the essay) definitely has the ability to mark fields as optional/required. Someone just needs to get in and do it, and they don't want to/know how.

The inaccessibility of config to laypeople may actually be where AI shines. You prompt an in-app modal to change X to Y, and it applies the change. A natural language interface to malleability.

Re: Malleable software: Restoring user agency in a world of locked-down apps

#110

Post by felipeccastro »

mynegation wrote: post #62

Give me Delphi. No, seriously, give me Delphi, but for the web and in a modern popular programming language. Python would be great, but I will not turn my nose away from TypeScript or Go or Lua. For those who don’t know, Delphi was (is?) a visual constructor for Windows apps that you outfitted with a dialect of Pascal. It was effing magic! Nowadays the web ecosystem is so fast-paced and so fragmented, the choice is p…

https://anvil.works/ uses Python
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