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The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

kaveland.no

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Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#101

Post by graemep »

fancyfredbot wrote: post #75
magarnicle wrote: post #35

So why aren't real libraries like this? Can you fund the internet the same way?

In the UK 190 libraries have been closed in the last five years. Before closure some of these only opened 2 days a week. It's common for libraries which remain open to be staffed by unpaid volunteers. My point is that the funding model for libraries is not exactly a massive success! I expect these libraries would have accepted advertising funding before they chose closure. I'm not aware of any advertising funded libr…

I think that is more the result of bad government than anything else. Libraries are a low profile resource with long term benefits (e.g. improving education and quality of life) in ways that are not immediately captured by metrics.

They are incredibly good value for money, if you understand the benefits and take a long view. However, politically they are an easy thing to cut.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#102

Post by closewith »

Mizza wrote: post #87
closewith wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea is that we will all spend more money on AI that we spend on phones, and we will spend it on those companies only... I don't know, it just doesn't add up. My companies currently spend more on AI than phones - hardware and subscriptions. It's now the second highest expense to salaries and director's remuneration.

What are you doing with it?

We make compliance software for EU enterprises that helps them remain GDPR compliant when writing software. We use agentic LLMs in our client-facing software development, which is largely industry-specific CRUD apps that use our existing APIs.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#103

Post by dragonwriter »

Mistletoe wrote: post #79
karel-3d wrote: post #78

The money situation is what gives me pause with LLMs. The amount of money it's burned on this is giant; those companies will need to make so much money to have any possibility of return. The idea is that we will all spend more money on AI that we spend on phones, and we will spend it on those companies only... I don't know, it just doesn't add up. As a user it's a great free ride though. Maybe there IS such a thing a…

I’m constantly confused why Google wants me to use Gemini so much. Why would they want me to use an AI that doesn’t show ads, isn’t their search, and costs them money to generate the responses? The instant we see ads in LLMs we will stop using them, it will be as abrupt and as annoying as the vuvuzela example because using an LLM is a very intimate interaction. It will feel much more jarring when your intimate chat f…

> The instant we see ads in LLMs we will stop using them

But what if you don't see distinct ads? LLM advertising can just be paid-for bias in the generated content.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#104

Post by sheiyei »

karel-3d wrote: post #78

The money situation is what gives me pause with LLMs. The amount of money it's burned on this is giant; those companies will need to make so much money to have any possibility of return. The idea is that we will all spend more money on AI that we spend on phones, and we will spend it on those companies only... I don't know, it just doesn't add up. As a user it's a great free ride though. Maybe there IS such a thing a…

YET.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#105

Post by closewith »

multjoy wrote: post #91
Mizza wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you doing with it?

Anything that could possibly justify the expense, I suspect, whether it is the right thing or not.

Isn't that true of all software development?

But we are lily-white both legally and ethically. One of the perks to a lifestyle business beholden to no investors.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#106

Post by lblume »

dragonwriter wrote: post #103
Mistletoe wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m constantly confused why Google wants me to use Gemini so much. Why would they want me to use an AI that doesn’t show ads, isn’t their search, and costs them money to generate the responses? The instant we see ads in LLMs we will stop using them, it will be as abrupt and as annoying as the vuvuzela example because using an LLM is a very intimate interaction. It will feel much more jarring when your intimate chat f…

> The instant we see ads in LLMs we will stop using them But what if you don't see distinct ads? LLM advertising can just be paid-for bias in the generated content.

Moreover, the bias could be arbitrarily subtle. This is something that really worries me about black box AI systems.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#107

Post by dizhn »

jedbrooke wrote: post #45
boothby wrote: post #2

> These days, I find that I am using multiple search engines and often resort to using an LLM to help me find content. For a few months, I've been wondering: how long until advertisers get their grubby meathooks into the training data? It's trivial to add prompts encouraging product placement, but I would be completely shocked if the big players don't sell out within a year or two, and start biasing the models themse…

not quite ads in LLMS, but I had an interesting experience with google maps the other day. the directions voice said "in 100 feet, turn left at the ". Normally it would say "at the traffic light" or similar. And this wasn't some easy to miss hidden street, it was just a normal intersection. I can only hope they aren't changing the routes yet to make you drive by the highest bidder

I am still waiting for navigation software to divert your route to make sure you see that establishment. From your experience, it seems like we're close to that reality now.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#108

Post by pcthrowaway »

sheiyei wrote: post #104
karel-3d wrote: post #78

The money situation is what gives me pause with LLMs. The amount of money it's burned on this is giant; those companies will need to make so much money to have any possibility of return. The idea is that we will all spend more money on AI that we spend on phones, and we will spend it on those companies only... I don't know, it just doesn't add up. As a user it's a great free ride though. Maybe there IS such a thing a…

YET.

Remember, Google also didn't have ads interspersed with their search results for over 1̶2̶ 2 years

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#109

Post by ZeroGravitas »

Mistletoe wrote: post #79
karel-3d wrote: post #78

The money situation is what gives me pause with LLMs. The amount of money it's burned on this is giant; those companies will need to make so much money to have any possibility of return. The idea is that we will all spend more money on AI that we spend on phones, and we will spend it on those companies only... I don't know, it just doesn't add up. As a user it's a great free ride though. Maybe there IS such a thing a…

I’m constantly confused why Google wants me to use Gemini so much. Why would they want me to use an AI that doesn’t show ads, isn’t their search, and costs them money to generate the responses? The instant we see ads in LLMs we will stop using them, it will be as abrupt and as annoying as the vuvuzela example because using an LLM is a very intimate interaction. It will feel much more jarring when your intimate chat f…

I saw my first AI ad yesterday, in Microsoft Copilot, recommending a Jetbrains product.

Re: The librarian immediately attempts to sell you a vuvuzela

#110

Post by MrGilbert »

lblume wrote: post #106
dragonwriter wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The instant we see ads in LLMs we will stop using them But what if you don't see distinct ads? LLM advertising can just be paid-for bias in the generated content.

Moreover, the bias could be arbitrarily subtle. This is something that really worries me about black box AI systems.

I‘d argue that, at some point, this behavior will surface enough that it gets interesting for government to take a look at it. At least in my country, ads need to be labeled as such - I don’t think this is going to change.
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