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Apple Notes Will Gain Markdown Export at WWDC, and, I Have Thoughts

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Re: Apple Notes Will Gain Markdown Export at WWDC, and, I Have Thoughts

#101

Post by Spooky23 »

bombcar wrote: post #97
Spooky23 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Markdown is like the new WordPerfect for some people, who want expressive written paths to format text. Like with WordPerfect, there are people who get great utility (attorneys in WP, developers with Markdown), but 80-95% of people don’t get anything out of it. It’s also one of those things where the constraints are an advantage. Markdown is great for internet facing text content, while many aspects of the mainstream…

Those 80% sometimes DO get something out of it - when the resident nerd can fix their broken document because it’s Markdown or WordPerfect. Just because I can’t fix my car doesn’t mean I want an unfixable car.

Agreed, but that’s the tension.

There’s no free lunch. On the flip, that user wants the complex features of the platform, and exposing them to a markup language takes elegant markdown and turns it into html or ooxml.

Re: Apple Notes Will Gain Markdown Export at WWDC, and, I Have Thoughts

#102

Post by jamesgill »

My original description of what it is still stands: “Markdown is a text-to-HTML conversion tool for web writers.

Yes, that's how John Gruber defines it. But like every creation you share with others, it can evolve. If popular, it will evolve. People create their own versions and uses and intentions with it.

I've used markdown for 12 years or so, for two reasons:

1. As a way to write plain text but still get visual layout cues without using a proprietary format/tool (e.g., Word).

2. Have options for later conversion to other formats/outputs (for Gruber, HTML.)

So for me, writing markdown on my Apple device means that instead of using Apple's proprietary format, I have another place to write plain text markdown and use/share it elsewhere (which I often do).

Re: Apple Notes Will Gain Markdown Export at WWDC, and, I Have Thoughts

#105

Post by modernerd »

He's right: Markdown was built for web editing in an era where physical keyboards outnumbered virtual ones. It doesn't really make sense for Notes outside of export.

There's little benefit to it as an input system on iOS/iPadOS (likely the dominant platforms for Notes) where formatting menus are just as close as `#` and `_` characters.

Several Markdown rules wouldn't make sense in the context of Notes. e.g. "end a line with two or more spaces then press return to create a
", which was designed to accommodate manually hard-wrapped text that Notes users likely don't want. Apple would have to follow something like CommonMark (feels unlikely) or implement their own Apple-flavoured Markdown, leaving you to learn what's supported and discover the quirks — kind of like its partial implementation of vim input in Xcode.

Popular Markdown apps seem to have converged on 'edit on line focus, preview on line blur', which is surely what the Notes app would do, because modal editing with preview and edit modes feels un-Appleish. 'Preview on line blur' _is_ nicer than a separate preview mode if you're a Markdown power user, but it still leaves many quirks you have to learn. (Just today I wrote, '# Thoughts on C#' in Obsidian, which reads ok with the cursor on that line until I pressed enter and the preview became, 'Thoughts on C'. Leaving me to learn I was supposed to know to write '#Thoughts on C\#' in the edit mode.)

Re: Apple Notes Will Gain Markdown Export at WWDC, and, I Have Thoughts

#106

Post by kgilpin »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #58

I’d love to see Markdown added to Apple Messages. I’m constantly sending URLs to people, like https://somesite.com/login . The point of these links is usually that people read them and understand them. But the automatic behavior is to replace the text with OpenGraph links, big obnoxious bubbles of graphics, which distort or destroy the meaning that I’m trying to convey. Given the opportunity, I would send most links…

Interestingly (to me) the SwiftUI Text element supports Markdown natively via AttributedString.

Re: Apple Notes Will Gain Markdown Export at WWDC, and, I Have Thoughts

#107

Post by packetlost »

Spooky23 wrote: post #84
dotdi wrote: post #41

When Gruber mentions that he never uses Markdown outside of his blog, and hinting at the fact that it was not intended for text editors (and other apps), there's one important point I want to make. Yes, Markdown has disadvantages, and a few rough edges for uses as the format for editors et al, but there are two very big advantages and/or sideffects of it's widespread use: (1) it's cleartext and therefore very good as…

Markdown is like the new WordPerfect for some people, who want expressive written paths to format text. Like with WordPerfect, there are people who get great utility (attorneys in WP, developers with Markdown), but 80-95% of people don’t get anything out of it. It’s also one of those things where the constraints are an advantage. Markdown is great for internet facing text content, while many aspects of the mainstream…

idk, a lot of non-devs use chat programs that use (a subset of) Markdown for rich text even if they don't know what that is.

Re: Apple Notes Will Gain Markdown Export at WWDC, and, I Have Thoughts

#110

Post by philistine »

jamesgill wrote: post #102

My original description of what it is still stands: “Markdown is a text-to-HTML conversion tool for web writers. Yes, that's how John Gruber defines it. But like every creation you share with others, it can evolve. If popular, it will evolve. People create their own versions and uses and intentions with it. I've used markdown for 12 years or so, for two reasons: 1. As a way to write plain text but still get visual la…

Gruber is Markdown's father but the overall Markdown community has stopped listening to him a long time ago. Doesn't help that he hasn't fixed the bugs in his Perl script since 2004.
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