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The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

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Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#101

Post by eddieroger »

RajT88 wrote: post #96
ender341341 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the support valve provides for the steam deck I'd be surprised if it was them. They seem much more interested in having a viable alternative to keep Microsoft from walling windows in such a way to kill steam than caring that they make the actual devices. I would 100% percent expect both Microsoft & Nintendo to have had a hand in that though.

I've often wondered how much cross-talk there is between the two companies, given that the Nintendo America HQ is smack in the middle of the sprawling Microsoft campus. There's got to be some, I should think.

I am sure there is some within the bounds of the law, but I don't think this time around that would have happened much. What's good for one is good for all, and they all know that, so why risk collusion by even thinking about it, when all they need to do is represent their own interests and be done.

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#103

Post by dml2135 »

ZeWaka wrote: post #49
jasonthorsness wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the bill for consumer electronics: https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary/?BillNumber=1483&Year=202... Text as passed (for pasting into LLM :)): https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2025-26/Pdf/Bills/Ho... I wondered what it would mean for small manufacturers and they are not exempt however o3 believes "in practice, your duty is limited to providing whatever service manuals, firmware-pairing utilities, and spa…

Very interesting, there's a carveout for video game consoles: > Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to require any original manufacturer or authorized repair provider to make available any parts, tools, or documentation required for the diagnosis, maintenance, or repair of a video game console and its components and peripherals. Wonder if Valve/Xbox/Nintendo asked for that, this being Washington State.

This is a result of there being a general consensus that video game consoles are "a thing" that we are all used to, and that the loosely-coupled movements of right-to-repair and antitrust are not seeking to disrupt the video game industry for fear of distracting from their larger goals.

It's an uneasy balance and it will be interesting to see where it goes once the dust settles on the current antitrust actions against big tech. I can't really think of a good reason why the iPhone should be a generalized computing device that is pryed open from Apple's clutches, while Nintendo, for example, can still run their own app store and would not be required to allow things like sideloading and root access while a smartphone manufacturer would. What makes one a computer, and the other an appliance?

(I'm saying this all as a right-to-repair and antitrust advocate, by the way)

I think a lot of this is a result of nostalgia, and a recognition that the business model of the video game industry has depended on this sort of control for a significantly longer than the personal computing industry. So no one really wants to kill Nintendo like they don't want to kill Mickey Mouse. Or, more cynically, no one really wants Nintendo and other video game behemoths to step into this fight on the other side, because going after Big Tech is hard enough as it is.

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#104

Post by [deleted] »

dml2135 wrote: post #103
ZeWaka wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting, there's a carveout for video game consoles: > Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to require any original manufacturer or authorized repair provider to make available any parts, tools, or documentation required for the diagnosis, maintenance, or repair of a video game console and its components and peripherals. Wonder if Valve/Xbox/Nintendo asked for that, this being Washington State.

This is a result of there being a general consensus that video game consoles are "a thing" that we are all used to, and that the loosely-coupled movements of right-to-repair and antitrust are not seeking to disrupt the video game industry for fear of distracting from their larger goals. It's an uneasy balance and it will be interesting to see where it goes once the dust settles on the current antitrust actions agains…

[deleted]

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#105

Post by [deleted] »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #98
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might want to talk to their legal departments before claiming such a thing if it isn't actually true. Lawsuits involve discovery.

How does this relate to my comment or any other comment in the chain? I don’t think anyone suggested manufacturers could get away with lying all the time.

[deleted]

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#106

Post by const_cast »

crooked-v wrote: post #75
balls187 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring proprietary dongles/software to clear fault codes are not uncommon, but I'm surprised there hasn't been enough interest for there to be a 3rd party tool. Like McDonald's Shake Machines had a 3rd party tool to help diagnose issues.

The McDonald's stuff in particular is a red herring. Their requirements are contract requirements, put in place after too many franchisees tarnished their name with listeria outbreaks.

Right, but the solution shouldn't have been a racketeering scheme.

This is the risk of franchising in general. You lose a certain amount of control over quality and you put your brand at much greater risk. In exchange, you get to expand your brand much faster than if you did it under centralized control and investment.

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#107

Post by mikestew »

technothrasher wrote: post #17
octoberfranklin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large generators are fuel-injected, which requires a microcontroller with software. In the 1990s that software was write-once, non-upgradeable, and bug-free because it was trivial. But it hasn't been that way for a long time. "Fuel injection requires software" turned into an exploit vector for feature creep.

To be needlessly pedantic, fuel injection does require a micro. I only say this because I deal with classic Bosch K-Jet systems often.

I assume you meant to say does not require a microcontroller, given that Bosch K is a mechanical FI system.

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#108

Post by 83 »

FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #60
lenerdenator wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk about the commercial units, but my portable inverter generator has a bunch of schmoo (highly technical industry term) that covers the entire electronics board. If a component on that board fried, I'm not able to repair it without replacing the whole board. The rest is fairly simple ICE like you say.

Conformal coating? That used to be the norm way back in the day for all kinds of electronics. Kind of a dick move, now, unless there is an environmental reason.

Probably epoxy potted, an order of magnitude more difficult to repair. Either way a coating is probably called for in the places a generator will be used so you probably wouldn't want to skip it just for repairability.

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#109

Post by socalgal2 »

dml2135 wrote: post #103
ZeWaka wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting, there's a carveout for video game consoles: > Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to require any original manufacturer or authorized repair provider to make available any parts, tools, or documentation required for the diagnosis, maintenance, or repair of a video game console and its components and peripherals. Wonder if Valve/Xbox/Nintendo asked for that, this being Washington State.

This is a result of there being a general consensus that video game consoles are "a thing" that we are all used to, and that the loosely-coupled movements of right-to-repair and antitrust are not seeking to disrupt the video game industry for fear of distracting from their larger goals. It's an uneasy balance and it will be interesting to see where it goes once the dust settles on the current antitrust actions agains…

> can't really think of a good reason why the iPhone should be a generalized computing device that is pryed open from Apple's clutches, while Nintendo, for example, can still run their own app store and would not be required to allow things like sideloading and root access while a smartphone manufacturer would. What makes one a computer, and the other an appliance?

Because the only thing people do on a Nintendo Switch is game. An iPhone on the other hand, people bank, book hotels, restaurants, flights, get directions, get taxis/uber/lift, order doordash/other takeout, make investments, plan for retirement, buy things from various businesses amazon/target/walmart, communicate via messanges/discord/fb/whatup/wechat, watch TV/youtube/tiktok, plan events/parties/get-togethers, make video calls via facetime/zoom/meet, take and share videos/phones, etc etc etc.

Apple is trying to control 100% of that and take a cut of 100% of that. They're effectively trying to be the middleman to the entire world. Nintendo maybe 1000 companies try to do business with you, selling you a game. iPhone probably > 100000 companies are trying to do business with you and Apple gets to say for each and everyone of them whether or not they are allowed to do business, how much they have to pay apple for each transaction, what payment systems they're allow/required to accept. They only recently got in trouble for requiring Apple's payment systems first. They shouldn't be allowed this control over so much.

And that's the difference between a video game console and an iPhone (or Android)

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#110

Post by const_cast »

charcircuit wrote: post #83
thomastjeffery wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire point is that companies are vertically integrating the repairs market into their product business. This directly removes competition from the market. The regulation here is to preserve the free market you are advocating for here.

It's possible consumers prefer the vertically integrated model of repair. Increasing competition doesn't necessarily make things better for consumers.

1. Consumers have no choice, so they better prefer it.

2. These anti-repair practices are anti-consumer, because they're specifically designed to make the process more difficult and expensive for consumers.

3. This is sort of along the lines of planned obsolescence. The reality is that making your product shittier on purpose is actually a viable business strategy when you have decent market share. It shouldn't be.

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