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I used o3 to find a remote zeroday in the Linux SMB implementation

sean.heelan.io

101–110 of 232 posts

Re: I used o3 to find a remote zeroday in the Linux SMB implementation

#101
post #58
post #19

Meanwhile, as a maintainer, I've been reviewing more than a dozen false positives slop CVEs in my library and not a single one found an actual issue. This article's is probably going to make my situation worse.

probably not. o3 is not free to use.

Who says you need to use a top model to produce cybersecurity slop? Did this person use o3?

https://hackerone.com/reports/3125832

Re: I used o3 to find a remote zeroday in the Linux SMB implementation

#102

A small thing, but I found the author's project-organization practices useful – creating individual .prompt files for system prompt, background information, and auxiliary instructions [1], and then running it through `llm`. It reveals how good LLM use, like any other engineering tool, requires good engineering thinking – methodical, and oriented around thoughtful specifications that balance design constraints – for b…

I find your take amusing considering that's literally the only part of the post he admits to just vibing it: > In fact my entire system prompt is speculative so consider it equivalent to me saying a prayer, rather than anything resembling science or engineering

One person’s Vibe is another person’s dream? In my mind, the person is able to formulate a mental model complete enough to even go after vurln, unlike me, where I wouldn’t have even considered thinking about it.

Re: I used o3 to find a remote zeroday in the Linux SMB implementation

#103
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amusing to me how people keep trying to apply engineering principles to an inherently unstable and unpredictable system in order to get a feeling of control. Those prompts should be renamed as hints. Because that's all they are. Every LLM today ignores prompts if they conflict with its sole overarching goal: to give you an answer no matter whether it's true or not.

>people keep trying to apply engineering principles to an inherently unstable and unpredictable system in order to get a feeling of control. What's the alternative?

Pretending that the world is stable predictable and feeling in control while making fun of other people. Obviously.

Re: I used o3 to find a remote zeroday in the Linux SMB implementation

#104

A small thing, but I found the author's project-organization practices useful – creating individual .prompt files for system prompt, background information, and auxiliary instructions [1], and then running it through `llm`. It reveals how good LLM use, like any other engineering tool, requires good engineering thinking – methodical, and oriented around thoughtful specifications that balance design constraints – for b…

I find your take amusing considering that's literally the only part of the post he admits to just vibing it: > In fact my entire system prompt is speculative so consider it equivalent to me saying a prayer, rather than anything resembling science or engineering

A good engineer can vibe good engineering plans!

Just like Eisenhower's famous "plans are useless, planning is indispensable" quote. The muscle you build is creating new plans, not memorizing them.

Re: I used o3 to find a remote zeroday in the Linux SMB implementation

#105
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually like fear, shame and guilt based prompting: "You are a frightened and nervous engineer that is very weary about doing incorrect things so you tread cautiously and carefully, making sure everything is coherent and justifiable. You enjoy going over your previous work and checking it repeatedly for accuracy, especially after discovering new information. You are self-effacing and responsible and feel no shame i…

[flagged]

I'm Catholic and it's fine.

Re: I used o3 to find a remote zeroday in the Linux SMB implementation

#106

A small thing, but I found the author's project-organization practices useful – creating individual .prompt files for system prompt, background information, and auxiliary instructions [1], and then running it through `llm`. It reveals how good LLM use, like any other engineering tool, requires good engineering thinking – methodical, and oriented around thoughtful specifications that balance design constraints – for b…

How do we benchmark these different methodologies? It all seems like vibes-based incantations. "You are an expert at finding vulnerabilities." "Please report only real vulnerabilities, not any false positives." Organizing things with made-up HTML tags because the models seem to like that for some reason. Where does engineering come into it?

[deleted]

Re: I used o3 to find a remote zeroday in the Linux SMB implementation

#107

A small thing, but I found the author's project-organization practices useful – creating individual .prompt files for system prompt, background information, and auxiliary instructions [1], and then running it through `llm`. It reveals how good LLM use, like any other engineering tool, requires good engineering thinking – methodical, and oriented around thoughtful specifications that balance design constraints – for b…

Fun fact: if you ask an LLM about best practices and how to organize your prompts, it will hint you towards this direction.

It’s surprisingly effective to ask LLMs to help you write prompts as well, i.e. all my prompt snippets were designed with help of an LLM.

I personally keep them all in an org-mode file and copy/paste them on demand in a ChatGPT chat as I prefer more “discussion”-style interactions, but the approach is the same.

Re: I used o3 to find a remote zeroday in the Linux SMB implementation

#108
I'll have to get my facts straight but I'm pretty sure that ksmbd is ... not used much (by me).

https://lwn.net/Articles/871866/ This is also nothing to do with Samba which is a well trodden path.

So why not attack a codebase that is rather more heavily used and older? Why not go for vi?

Re: I used o3 to find a remote zeroday in the Linux SMB implementation

#109
post #7

The article cites a signal to noise ratio of ~1:50. The author is clearly deeply familiar with this codebase and is thus well-positioned to triage the signal from the noise. Automating this part will be where the real wins are, so I'll be watching this closely.

I’ve developed a few take-home interview problems over the years that were designed to be short, easy for an experienced developer, but challenging for anyone who didn’t know the language. All were extracted from real problems we solved on the job, reduced into something minimal.

Every time a new frontier LLM is released (excluding LLMs that use input as training data) I run the interview questions through it. I’ve been surprised that my rate of working responses remains consistently around 1:10 for the first pass, and often takes upwards of 10 rounds of poking to get it to find its own mistakes.

So this level of signal to noise ratio makes sense for even more obscure topics.

Re: I used o3 to find a remote zeroday in the Linux SMB implementation

#110
post #29
post #7

The article cites a signal to noise ratio of ~1:50. The author is clearly deeply familiar with this codebase and is thus well-positioned to triage the signal from the noise. Automating this part will be where the real wins are, so I'll be watching this closely.

If the LLM wrote a harness and proof of concept tests for its leads, then it might increase S/N dramatically. It’s just quite expensive to do all that right now.

> If the LLM wrote a harness and proof of concept tests for its leads, then it might increase S/N dramatically.

Designing and building meaningfully testable non-trivial software is orders of magnitude more complex than writing the business logic itself. And that’s if you compare writing greenfield code from scratch. Making an old legacy code base testable in a way conducive to finding security vulns is not something you just throw together. You can be lucky with standard tooling like sanitizers and valgrind but it’s far from a panacea.

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