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Root for your friends

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Re: Root for your friends

#101

Post by waonderer »

lapcat wrote: post #98

The nominal subject of the article is "friends", but it appears that the article is best understood as about work friends. Perhaps "allies" would be a more appropriate term? I hope that the author has some work/life balance and can feel the difference between these two categories. I would define a friend as someone with whom you enjoy spending time. There doesn't need to be a goal except to "hang out". Do you really…

Relationships are of various kinds that extend in various dimensions. What the Author has talked about definitely sounds more like a "work-friend" relationship, but is not entirely separate from a "friend-friend" that you define.

> It’s deeply believing that a rising tide lifts all boats.

This is true, but with context. "Growth" and "Comfort" are two different elements of a good friendship. We can replace "rising" with "happy", and the same quote works for comfort.

Are both necessary? Depends on how you define "friendship". If comfort is the only thing, you dog can be a comfortable companion. But for a human friendship to last longer, both must enjoy each other company for longer time horizon, and that needs growth in both. This growth needs not be only in career, but mental too.

With such growth, envy can't come in and corrode the bond.

Re: Root for your friends

#102

Post by samlinnfer »

ketzo wrote: post #4

For a long time, I’ve been this person for other people, but don’t feel like I have anybody to do this for me. That’s okay — I don’t feel bitter about that or anything. And I don’t wanna overstate what a good friend I am or whatever, I just do this a decent amount. But some part of me does wish I had someone celebrating my wins. This: “No one comes to mind? Maybe you haven’t really trusted anyone with your wins yet.”…

Let's take this to the extreme, you just won the lottery, which one of your friends will you tell?

Re: Root for your friends

#103

Post by photochemsyn »

aeblyve wrote: post #2

And here I was cynically thinking I was going to learn how to "get root" on my friends. Still applies I guess.

It's easier to get root on your friends than it is to get root on your enemies, because they likely trust you. This is why a central tenent of John Le Carre narratives is "fear your friends more than your enemies."

This often plays out in the blood sport of academic politics, incidentally.

Re: Root for your friends

#104

Post by photochemsyn »

The most dishonest fraudulent academic researcher I even encountered made a point of encouraging collegiality, but eventually I realized this was part of his scheme for not being exposed as a fraud. Everyone in his department knew he was fudging his data, but nobody called him on it because he was such a nice guy to everyone else.

This is how you end up with systematic institutional corruption in academic departments along with a lot of non-reproducible garbage science. Thus a better strategy is to support people who do good work, regardless of whether they're your 'friends' or not.

Re: Root for your friends

#105

Post by neom »

taylorius wrote: post #83
neom wrote: post #42

Someone I'm "friends" with, recently confessed to me that they very much enjoy watching me fail. I was genuinely surprised because I love watching people win, but I dug into it a bit and apparently it's very common, people really do love to see other people have setbacks, but the research I read seemed to indicate it was more prevalent in friendships, people seem fine with other people getting a head if they don't kn…

It's interesting - had they acted this schadenfreude out at all? Or did this confession come completely out of the blue. From what you said, it is the latter - and if so, should this person be judged for this unappealing inner thought, if they take pains not to let that thought influence their behaviour or actions?

I have thought about this a lot over the past few weeks. And I think I should stop thinking about it because it's becoming unhealthy, because I've analyzed our whole relationship back years and gotten into too much speculation in my head.

Re: Root for your friends

#106

Post by lapcat »

waonderer wrote: post #101
lapcat wrote: post #98

The nominal subject of the article is "friends", but it appears that the article is best understood as about work friends. Perhaps "allies" would be a more appropriate term? I hope that the author has some work/life balance and can feel the difference between these two categories. I would define a friend as someone with whom you enjoy spending time. There doesn't need to be a goal except to "hang out". Do you really…

Relationships are of various kinds that extend in various dimensions. What the Author has talked about definitely sounds more like a "work-friend" relationship, but is not entirely separate from a "friend-friend" that you define. > It’s deeply believing that a rising tide lifts all boats. This is true, but with context. "Growth" and "Comfort" are two different elements of a good friendship . We can replace "rising" w…

> With such growth, envy can't come in and corrode the bond.

Well, if we're talking about work-friends, the classic conflict would be when one co-worker is promoted but the other isn't, and indeed the one becomes the other's boss. That's basically a zero-sum game, and it's difficult for a friendship to survive that scenario.

Re: Root for your friends

#107

Post by cootsnuck »

noduerme wrote: post #86
ketzo wrote: post #4

For a long time, I’ve been this person for other people, but don’t feel like I have anybody to do this for me. That’s okay — I don’t feel bitter about that or anything. And I don’t wanna overstate what a good friend I am or whatever, I just do this a decent amount. But some part of me does wish I had someone celebrating my wins. This: “No one comes to mind? Maybe you haven’t really trusted anyone with your wins yet.”…

There's nothing wrong with being humble. It only takes one small display of pride to make most people quietly hate you. For example, I opened this blog post and within 20 seconds I loathed the person who wrote it. I find your approach to be much more decent.

But now you seem miserable and bitter so what's the point? Don't dull your own shine and don't yuck other people's yum.

Re: Root for your friends

#108

Post by cootsnuck »

neom wrote: post #105
taylorius wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting - had they acted this schadenfreude out at all? Or did this confession come completely out of the blue. From what you said, it is the latter - and if so, should this person be judged for this unappealing inner thought, if they take pains not to let that thought influence their behaviour or actions?

I have thought about this a lot over the past few weeks. And I think I should stop thinking about it because it's becoming unhealthy, because I've analyzed our whole relationship back years and gotten into too much speculation in my head.

It sounds like he has a very "zero-sum" type of mindset and views most people around him as potential competition instead of potential collaborators. Scarcity mindsets taken to extremes make people focus only on what they can lose. If I'm being charitable, maybe your friend has been struggling with things behind the scenes? But honestly it sounds more like a personality thing.

And all of that being said, none of us are perfect. I would hope your friend has at least some redeeming qualities, something you enjoy about him. Otherwise, it sounds like, at least lately, your friendship with him has been taking energy and peace from you and giving you...what? (And I say that not to mean friendships are only about "gaining" something, but they are meant to be mutually supportive with some ebbs and flows.)

Re: Root for your friends

#109

Post by detaro »

mystifyingpoi wrote: post #93
foobarbecue wrote: post #31

In my first few years on the job, I would fill out peer evaluations honestly. We have peer evaluations where you rate people out of 5 on various performance elements like "innovative" and "leader" or whatever. Then I survived a couple of rounds of awful layoffs where really good people lost their livelihoods. Since then, I put 5 out of 5 on everyone for everything always, and say something nice in all the boxes.

For real. I have bought a car and the same day discovered a minor issue, I had to get it fixed next day. I rated the service 8/10, it was excellent otherwise. Next day I get a very apologetic call, begging me to change my rating, because anything less than 9/10 triggers some kind of investigation process. I said screw it and took the survey again, I'm not going to ruin someone else's work because of this.

Net Promoter Score (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_promoter_score) has (if it ever was useful) turned into madness in way too many contexts.

Re: Root for your friends

#110

Post by mipt »

noduerme wrote: post #86
ketzo wrote: post #4

For a long time, I’ve been this person for other people, but don’t feel like I have anybody to do this for me. That’s okay — I don’t feel bitter about that or anything. And I don’t wanna overstate what a good friend I am or whatever, I just do this a decent amount. But some part of me does wish I had someone celebrating my wins. This: “No one comes to mind? Maybe you haven’t really trusted anyone with your wins yet.”…

There's nothing wrong with being humble. It only takes one small display of pride to make most people quietly hate you. For example, I opened this blog post and within 20 seconds I loathed the person who wrote it. I find your approach to be much more decent.

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