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Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

yle.fi

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Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#101

Post by aarroyoc »

reddalo wrote: post #47
blueflow wrote: post #41

Get a look on the track topology on openrailwaymap: https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?style=gauge&lat=62.774837258...

That's very interesting. I wonder why Spain is different than the rest of Europe, given it's connected by land. It makes more sense for islands such as Ireland to retain their old gauge.

In addition to the other comment, which I agree as I've heard the same, for the most part Spain and Portugal have been operating as if the Iberian Peninsula was an island. The Pyrenees are a big barrier, and in Franco's era the country was very isolated.

The same happens with the electricity grid, even though it is connected to France, it has very small capacity.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#102

Post by alexey-salmin »

HPsquared wrote: post #60
jabl wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not incidentally, 1524mm is exactly 5 feet. Which was the rail gauge widely used in the southern US states. The Russian tsar hired someone who had been building railroads in the US south to design his railroad, and here we are. The 1520mm was some Soviet effort to "metrify" their railways while keeping compatibility with existing rolling stock.

I wonder if they actually made new trains etc 4mm smaller, or if it was in name only.

If I recall correctly, the rolling stock remained the same, tracks were re-railed and the 4mm came from tolerances that were historically very loose. So the stated goal was to get higher speed and stability from tighter tolerances.

I also remember reading a long time ago that there were two engineering schools: one modeled that tighter tolerances would decrease oscillations and vibrations and the other predicted exactly the opposite. I think in the end they settled on natural experiments. Hope I didn't make this up, need to search for sources.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#104

Post by abbe98 »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #69
cromulent wrote: post #29

Note that the proposal for this came from the EU Commission over the last few years - the Trans-European Transport Network (TEN-T). Initially Finland pushed back on it as being too expensive. https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/infrastructu...

There is little benefit for the cost for Finland. Currently I believe that there are no railway between Finland and the rest of the EU, with the first one to Sweden under construction (and obviously a huge detour since the only land connection is through the North of the country).

The connection between Finland and Sweden was built in 1919, however it was recently electrified(January 2025). It's dual gauge(four rails).

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#105

Post by [deleted] »

thrdbndndn wrote: post #56
blueflow wrote: post #41

Get a look on the track topology on openrailwaymap: https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?style=gauge&lat=62.774837258...

The legend on this site is a joke. It's almost impossible to see the colors under the numbers, as they're only a few pixels wide: https://i.imgur.com/k8k394D.png

[deleted]

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#106

Post by varsketiz »

indiantinker wrote: post #100

TBH, it seems like a questionable way to spend EU money. Technically, it's fascinating, but unless it's part of a broader geopolitical or long-term interoperability strategy, it's hard to justify the costs. In Spain, we already deal with both Iberian and standard gauges—trains like the Talgo models can change gauges with minimal delay. It's not seamless, but it works reasonably well. Spain also has the world's second…

The goal is defence - to prevent easy russian train logistics deep into Finland.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#107

Post by russianGuy83829 »

thrdbndndn wrote: post #56
blueflow wrote: post #41

Get a look on the track topology on openrailwaymap: https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?style=gauge&lat=62.774837258...

The legend on this site is a joke. It's almost impossible to see the colors under the numbers, as they're only a few pixels wide: https://i.imgur.com/k8k394D.png

I see it fine when zooming in a bit on mobile

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#108

Post by arnsholt »

andriamanitra wrote: post #70
pjc50 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not convinced this project is ever going to pay for itself. The subtext is not economic: it's "in the event of being invaded by Russia, can we minimize the delays in moving NATO materiel by rail to the front while denying Russia equally easy access to the rails".

I understand that but it is still economic: I highly doubt fixing a minor delay in material movement is the most effective use of these billions.

I don’t think it’s a minor delay. In other places where gauge changes are necessary, I think it typically takes on the order of an hour or a few hours, so if you need a big logistics operation across the border from Sweden into Finland, that bottleneck is going to absolutely murder your throughput.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#110

Post by oblio »

vesinisa wrote: post #14

Here's a much better article from the Finnish public broadcaster giving more context: https://yle.fi/a/74-20161606 My comments: The important thing to note that at this point it's just a political posturing and an announcement of intent. They haven't shown any concrete technical plan how this would actually be executed. > "Of course, we are very pragmatic and realistic, we cannot do this in five years. Planning will…

Fear of a foreign invasion by a country much larger than your, and one that occupied you once for 200 years and attacked you again just 20 years after independence tends to clear the mind.
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