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Nevermind, an album on major chords

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101–110 of 114 posts

Re: Nevermind, an album on major chords

#101
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah absolutely, I'm not arguing against theory by any means. I'm happy I know it, but often times I wish my early music teachers spent more time with me on following my ears than whatever it was they were trying to do. It wasn't until I was an adult that I found someone that really cared about that. But also... what's John Lee Hooker's secret of the guitar??? Don't hold out on us!

It's supposed to be transmitted orally, like a story from Homer or something, so I won't copy and paste it here, but you can find it easily enough by searching. Basically, without quoting it word-for-word, it's old bluesman advice from the "diddly-bow" era that when starting out on guitar, string it with one string only and play it until you can provoke emotion from an audience with one string. When you can do that,…

Oh I get it, I practice Vajrayana Buddhism and a lot of the tradition is still transmitted orally and in person.

But the gist of that method actually sounds a lot like how my music teacher approaches things, he won't let you move on in your improvisations on a new tune until you can get a feeling from playing just half and whole notes on the changes. His teacher was Lennie Tristano so he's very driven by developing that ear instinct.

Re: Nevermind, an album on major chords

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blues isn’t really compatible with conventional tonality: it’s basically major chords with added minor seventh (I won’t call them dominant sevenths because they don’t function as dominant chords), with minor pentatonic (plus added flat fifth) melody. There’s no way that combination can possibly work—but it does!

IMHO that’s a narrow definition of the Blues, and the genre is much wider. From the top of my head, I’m thinking of BB King playing “The Thrill is Gone”. Still blues, but in a minor key. Definitely not major chords with an added minor seventh. For the minor blues scale working over a major blues progression - I think the dissonance is okay because the flat third and fifth are often passing tones. If you loiter on the…

I wouldn't say the minor third is a "passing tone" at all, it's the defining note of the minor scale. Listen to e.g. "Mannish Boy"--the minor third is absolutely essential to that riff.

Agree that of course there are blues songs with definitely minor harmony, but I still think the really distinctive and innovative characteristic of blues is "minor melody over major harmony"--the minor pentatonic scale was already ubiquitous in African-American music in e.g. spirituals. That's just incredibly weird and I can't imagine how it must have sounded to white audiences hearing it for the first time.

Re: Nevermind, an album on major chords

#103
post #3

Pretty much every chord he played was a power chord. Thats just a root and a 5th. It’s neither major or minor, because you need the 3rd to establish that And nearly every punk and metal band uses predominantly power chords, without any real care in the world as to what the progressions are. It just sounds good to them. There aren’t any rules because punk is a DIY genre. If you told him he was doing a thing, he’d do t…

> punk and metal band uses predominantly power chords, without any real care in the world as to what the progressions are Somewhat true for punk, mostly incorrect for metal. A lot of metal is very analytical, deeper in musical theory than most popular genres (rock, pop, rnb…), they care _a lot_ about it. Metal is often very technical, it bred some of the top musicians in the world, it’s no surprise they give a shit a…

Metal is probably one of the most technically and music theory driven genres. It attracts people who really want to get GOOD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9xvi0uXzaY&t=464s

Re: Nevermind, an album on major chords

#104
post #57
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you, but I suspect there's an element of just being the right age. I think of Kurt Cobain like an accidental Elvis Presley. Perfect for the moment, and (unlike Elvis) mostly organically grown, but with very clear antecedents. I cannot point to strong antecedents of Pixies, Sonic Youth, Throwing Muses, PJ Harvey, Cocteau Twins, Bauhaus, Einstürzende Neubauten, The Slits, Bongwater, Kate Bush, The C…

Pixies antecedents are Husker Du and Sonic Youth. Sonic Youth was the Velvets and The Fall; I found a list of setlists from '70s CBGB and made a playlist, and you can hear Sonic Youth all over it. Throwing Muses (a favorite of mine) a little harder to pinpoint, feels to me like the product of a scene more than a direct evolution of clear antecedents, rather than an act like Dinosaur Jr. was a perversion of Neil Young…

This is a complete non-sequitur, but I'm putting it here just because the sort of people who made it this deep in the comments might appreciate the story.

For Halloween, I duct-taped a banana to a tee-shirt, intending to go as Comedian[1], which had been in the news recently. My manager, when seeing me dressed this way immediately asked "Oh, are you The Velvet Underground and Nico? I love that album!" I countered with "Did you start a band?" and he said "Yes! How did you know?"

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comedian_(artwork)

Re: Nevermind, an album on major chords

#105
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pixies antecedents are Husker Du and Sonic Youth. Sonic Youth was the Velvets and The Fall; I found a list of setlists from '70s CBGB and made a playlist, and you can hear Sonic Youth all over it. Throwing Muses (a favorite of mine) a little harder to pinpoint, feels to me like the product of a scene more than a direct evolution of clear antecedents, rather than an act like Dinosaur Jr. was a perversion of Neil Young…

This is a complete non-sequitur, but I'm putting it here just because the sort of people who made it this deep in the comments might appreciate the story. For Halloween, I duct-taped a banana to a tee-shirt, intending to go as Comedian [1], which had been in the news recently. My manager, when seeing me dressed this way immediately asked "Oh, are you The Velvet Underground and Nico ? I love that album!" I countered w…

Well played. Also how big a Velvets fan can your manager really be if they don't get that joke?

Re: Nevermind, an album on major chords

#106
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loud-quiet-loud was the signature sounds of Nirvana - borrowed from Frank Black who pioneered it with the Pixies. Kurt was a way better singer and better looking than Frank Black. Along with good songs, that was a recipe for success. I am a big Nirvana fan. But a bigger Pixies fan. A chunk of Pixies sound/energy was inspired from the guitar middle/outro in B52's "Rock Lobster".

I like both of them, I don't think either is a genius, and I think both Frank Black and Cobain are on basically the same level. I really think it's underappreciated how much the early Seattle sound was just a fusion of 80s punk and hair metal. If you play Smells Like Teen Spirit and the Breeders "Hellbound" back to back, and you like Nirvana much more, what you really like is Guns n Roses. There's no shame in that!

If you magnify Alice in Chains' beginnings and pretend like Andrew Wood hadn't died and Pearl Jam never existed and Mother Love Bone became popular, the hair metal influence becomes much more obvious.

Re: Nevermind, an album on major chords

#107

This is a remarkably ignorant take. Literally every detail is wrong. They aren't major chords, they're mostly power chords, which are neither major nor minor (no third and the third provides the major/minor tonality). They often function as minor chords because of the melody or other parts, or just because of how the progression fits together. They aren't unique or new with Cobain, he was part of a long history of pu…

> Cobain was a good songwriter in the rock and roll tradition. He wasn't even that. He was a pretty bad songwriter. His music was by and large mopey, plodding monotonous work that is dreary to listen to. Apart from Smells Like Teen Spirit, I don't think he wrote a single song worth listening to.

> I don't think he wrote a single song worth listening to.

Thank you, bigstrat2003, I'm going to throw out all my Nirvana CDs based on your authoritative statement.

What, pray tell, should I be listening to instead?

Re: Nevermind, an album on major chords

#108

A common thing w/ Nirvana songs is that Kurt plays power chords, and then has the thirds (+ other tones) in the vocal melody. But also, it was just a (counter-) cultural thing to feign lack of music theory knowledge or practice at the time. Quite a destructive one, I might add. A nice video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWY4YYmSTWg

Yes, Kurt falls into the "obviously knows music theory without knowing what things are called". He played by ear and had a gift for melody and chord tones. Rick Beato has great videos about Nirvana and Kurt's very sophisticated ear - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l1ZnWc-sFd0&pp=ygUNYmVhdG8gbml...

Re: Nevermind, an album on major chords

#109

Really cool project. I love the animations that go with the songs. I’d go through all of the chord progressions and make sure they actually match what is being played. There are quite a few errors. Happens to everyone. Also, you and everyone else should remember that while the band is mostly playing power chords and omitting the fifths, what Cobain sings is part of the chord as it’s heard. This means that, for exampl…

Bill bailey converts songs to minor so it all sounds like funeral dirges, like happy birthday and god save the queen.

Re: Nevermind, an album on major chords

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO that’s a narrow definition of the Blues, and the genre is much wider. From the top of my head, I’m thinking of BB King playing “The Thrill is Gone”. Still blues, but in a minor key. Definitely not major chords with an added minor seventh. For the minor blues scale working over a major blues progression - I think the dissonance is okay because the flat third and fifth are often passing tones. If you loiter on the…

I wouldn't say the minor third is a "passing tone" at all, it's the defining note of the minor scale. Listen to e.g. "Mannish Boy"--the minor third is absolutely essential to that riff. Agree that of course there are blues songs with definitely minor harmony, but I still think the really distinctive and innovative characteristic of blues is "minor melody over major harmony"--the minor pentatonic scale was already ubi…

I think you’re misunderstanding the context I was replying to.

Of course a minor third is important to a minor scale. But if the underlying harmony happens to be a major chord, then the minor third is dissonant relative to the harmony.

I referred to this dissonance as a passing tone because you said “ There’s no way that combination can possibly work—but it does!”.

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