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Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#101

Post by fkyoureadthedoc »

maccard wrote: post #43
swiftcoder wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the model that has shifted to where apps that used to be a single $10 unlock, now have a recurring subscription of $24.99/month? Personally unclear how much less predatory the shift to subscriptions for trivial feature unlocks is than loot boxes...

What app used to be $10 and is now a $300/year subscription?

There's thousands of games targeted at children that are exactly this.

There are publishers that drop reskin after reskin of the same game all with individual subscriptions, and they constantly try to kids from one into the other.

Then others clone that game and do the same thing. Fluvsies is an App Store virus.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#102

Post by jjice »

fundatus wrote: post #3

Sigh, not that I expected anything else from Apple at this point but of course they only change the rules for the US.

It seems pretty standard for tech companies. They did the same thing with EU only side-loading (not even sure if that's the right term for how restricted it is). They'll only make changes where they need to, whether it's the EU or the US, or even the UK (let's see how that encryption stuff turns out).

As a business, I understand why they would - more revenue. At least there's some progress and I wouldn't be surprised if the EU follows suit.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#103

Post by maccard »

josephg wrote: post #71
maccard wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What app used to be $10 and is now a $300/year subscription?

I bought GoodNotes 5 and love it. One time purchase, and a great little app. Now GoodNotes 6 is out. Their “most popular plan” is an annual subscription. I just tried to look up how expensive it is - but their pricing page[1] lists a bunch of different plans available. It doesn’t list the actual prices. (Why on earth does a notes app have multiple usage plans? Horrible.) They have a “one time payment” option. But I t…

That pricing page is absolutely abysmal and indefensible, but has nothing to do with what the parent comment said (small one time purchase vs larger recurring subscription). There's a one time payment option (with no price, which is shitty) on that page for v6. That seems like it has exactly the functionality you wanted?

> They have a “one time payment” option. But I thought that’s what I already bought from the App Store when I bought it a couple years ago.

You said yourself you bought GoodNotes 5, and this is for GoodNotes 6.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#104

Post by crazygringo »

UncleMeat wrote: post #87
coldcode wrote: post #69

At the risk of not piling on to the Apple dislike here, if you use a non-Apple payment system, and you have an issue, you now need to go to the specific company and payment system, you can no longer demand your money back by dealing with a single company. I presume even more scam apps will take your money and ignore your complaints; imagine trying to sue a company in some foreign country to try to get your money back…

You are free to only use apps that use apple payments if you are concerned about this.

But then there are apps you were able to use previously that you will no longer be able to trust. That's the problem -- it's taking away trust.

You're not free to continue using Apple's payment system as a consumer.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#105

Post by burnte »

fundatus wrote: post #3

Sigh, not that I expected anything else from Apple at this point but of course they only change the rules for the US.

Yep, and the EU wants the same thing so all Apple is really doing is holding on for a little longer to the old rules until the EU will make them do the exact same thing. Apple could have been less maliciously compliant and wouldn't have as much resistance from courts, but it was clearly a retaliatory tactic from minute 1.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#106

Post by pqtyw »

pokot0 wrote: post #48
deeThrow94 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it adds legitimacy to the free market spirit seen in markets like EU, which has been criticized for making up arbitrary rules for self-interest. I'm confused a) who is taking the concept of free markets seriously, especially in this context where markets (and competition) are arbitrarily defined and owned by corporations and and b) who would view self-interested laws as either surprising or bad? Of course laws a…

I think a more interesting question is: who is “self”? US is historically more prone to favor business, while EU seems more concerned in protecting consumers. And of course there is the noise generated by incompetence/corruption/lobbying that makes the question of “in the interest of whom are laws made?” very nuanced.

> US is historically more prone to favor business, while EU seems more concerned in protecting consumers.

Well that's not that obvious... Sure EU is more than willing to protect consumers from foreign(American) megacorporation because the cost of doing that is very low.

Entrenched major local companies? Well stifling competition through excessive regulation and propping up to bit too fall semi-zombie corporations is not necessarily that great for consumers long-term.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#107

Post by caseyy »

coldcode wrote: post #69

At the risk of not piling on to the Apple dislike here, if you use a non-Apple payment system, and you have an issue, you now need to go to the specific company and payment system, you can no longer demand your money back by dealing with a single company. I presume even more scam apps will take your money and ignore your complaints; imagine trying to sue a company in some foreign country to try to get your money back…

> if you use a non-Apple payment system, and you have an issue, you now need to go to the specific company and payment system, you can no longer demand your money back by dealing with a single company

Just use a virtual payment processor (PayPal, Amazon Pay, Google Pay, etc) or any credit card directlyh. I mean, you often can't on an iPhone, and that's the whole problem.

If you have a genuine issue with what you bought via Apple's payment gateway and your bank files a credit card chargeback for you, Apple would even indiscriminately ban you. They are hardly the good guy.

They've installed themselves as an arbiter of what can be refunded and what cannot. But by law, the arbiter is the government, not Apple. So there are many, many problems with Apple's approach. The consumer rights are one, but acting above the law itself is a problem.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#108

Post by crazygringo »

mlrtime wrote: post #75
coldcode wrote: post #69

At the risk of not piling on to the Apple dislike here, if you use a non-Apple payment system, and you have an issue, you now need to go to the specific company and payment system, you can no longer demand your money back by dealing with a single company. I presume even more scam apps will take your money and ignore your complaints; imagine trying to sue a company in some foreign country to try to get your money back…

Not 100% true, if it's digital you always have your Credit Card company. This is many times easier dealing with Apple or anyone else.

Canceling a purchase via Apple is generally much easier than dealing with your credit card. I don't know what experience you've had that has been the opposite?

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#109

Post by inanutshellus »

andiareso wrote: post #91
macguillicuddy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this not what the credit card system (with chargebacks and liability shift) is supposed to counter more generally? Lots of these arguments could equally be applied to a shopping mall but we don't require all stores within a mall to use the same merchant services provider.

This is probably the best analogy, however I think what might be different is there is somewhat high of a bar for the merchant/vendor to be operating a legal and legitimate business. On the internet and in the App Store, it’s kind of a Wild West. Edit: Maybe not globalizing App Store apps would resolve this? Or at least if you want to operate an app in a country, you need to incorporate in that country too? I think t…

Sticking to his first point is sufficient: This is what credit cards themselves insulate you from. You don't need Apple to also insulate you.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#110

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

Larrikin wrote: post #12

Hopefully the criminal charge referrals don't disappear.

Tim Apple just needs to make a bigger bribe. Jeff Bozo scooped the documentaries so now he's gotta find something bigger to launder the payoff with.
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