The Brief Origins of May Day • Hacker News Board

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#101

Post by freeone3000 » Thu, May 01, 2025, 2:07 PM UTC

constantcrying wrote: post #76

cruzcampo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But software developers are the working class. Anyone who derives their income from labor is.

Sure. And that is why protesting looks so ridiculous. The oppressed working class, making six figures typing away in a well furnished office.

The top-end of the working class shares more with the low-end of the working class, than the top-end of the working class shares with the low-end of the upper class.

I have never been to a politician's dinner. I have never changed a law. If I were fired, which can be done at any time for no reason, I would have no source of income. Money is the weakest form of power, and a well-paid job is the weakest form of money.

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#102

Post by dauertewigkeit » Thu, May 01, 2025, 2:07 PM UTC

throw0101a wrote: post #93

dauertewigkeit wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes solidarity between workers possible is the homogeneity of their labour. This condition is not present for tech workers. Labour market conditions are completely different from those of say, a meat processing plant or a factory assembly line.

> What makes solidarity between workers possible is the homogeneity of their labour. Ethan Hunt play by Tom Cruise and Waitress #2 played by Jane Doe aren't very homogeneous with regards to pay and fame, but they're both part of SAG.

Good point. I am not familiar with Hollywood to know what their job market is like.

EDIT: another commented mentioned that NBA players are also unionized. I think there is a second element to it, which has to do with how monopolized the employer market is.

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#103

Post by dcre » Thu, May 01, 2025, 2:07 PM UTC

dauertewigkeit wrote: post #61

parpfish wrote: post #16

Why don’t labor issues resonate more with tech workers? I know that we’re not a monolith and are actually a heterogeneous mix of opinions, but there frequently talk about job dissatisfaction (career burnout, comically stingy equity grants, etc). But when organizing comes up, it’s usually treated with disdain because so many have bought into highly individualistic hustle-culture and the narrative that unions only exis…

What makes solidarity between workers possible is the homogeneity of their labour. This condition is not present for tech workers. Labour market conditions are completely different from those of say, a meat processing plant or a factory assembly line.

This is the exactly the right kind of question to be asking, but I think your conclusion is wrong. Why think the painters and the welder in an auto factory have more in common than 20 different kinds of programmers do?

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#104

Post by kergonath » Thu, May 01, 2025, 2:07 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #50

pera wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have been conditioned to fear the idea of demanding a more fair distribution of wealth: My great grandfather for example was shot dead by a cop during a union strike. Nothing happened after that event, just silence, fear and a deeply traumatized family. It is very important to remember that many of the things we enjoy today as workers only exist because of the enormous courage of workers from the 19th and early 20…

And a reminder that the police have never been on the side of the people. They are they muscle of the state.

Ideally, the interests of the state and of the people coincide (otherwise you cannot have a democracy). It is very unhelpful to say that the police is by nature hostile to the people. It does not have to be that way, and we should demand that it is not. The police is the enforcement arm of the State, true, but we are the State.

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#105

Post by cruzcampo » Thu, May 01, 2025, 2:08 PM UTC

constantcrying wrote: post #100

parpfish wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I worry that all the stories about unions helping to end the most extreme exploitation and fix deadly working conditions has made them unrelatable. If you make a cushy salary and the biggest physical risk is carpal tunnel, you might think ”I dont have it THAT bad. It’d be greedy and disrespectful of the sacrifices that were made to use unions in my situation”

What made unions unrelatable for me was them obviously pushing the interest of factory workers over the interests of engineers. Thanks for trying to get my job outsourced I guess.

There's nothing stopping us from creating an engineers union. Each field should have their own organisation.

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#106

Post by constantcrying » Thu, May 01, 2025, 2:08 PM UTC

cruzcampo wrote: post #94

constantcrying wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same struggles, like the quality of the office coffee machine? Bike subsidies from the employer too low?

[flagged]

>No, the same struggles such as being dependent on the whims of increasingly unhinged oligarchs, while democracy is being dismantled and the planet burns in the name of the stock market.

Oh, I wasn't aware of that. Does not seem to apply to me though.

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#107

Post by cruzcampo » Thu, May 01, 2025, 2:08 PM UTC

constantcrying wrote: post #106

cruzcampo wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>No, the same struggles such as being dependent on the whims of increasingly unhinged oligarchs, while democracy is being dismantled and the planet burns in the name of the stock market. Oh, I wasn't aware of that. Does not seem to apply to me though.

Whether you see it or not, it does :-(

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#108

Post by monkaiju » Thu, May 01, 2025, 2:10 PM UTC

matkoniecz wrote: post #63

irrational wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a reminder that the police have never been on the side of the people. They are they muscle of the state.

> police have never been on the side of the people that is a remarkable generalization, that overstates things to the point of being misleading > They are they muscle of the state. still, there are better and worse states if you go fully pacifist and disempower yourself and your state it will not result in peace - it will result in someone else, likely worse, taking over Police in my country did some bad things (and…

Its only a generalization in so far as that is and always has been their direct purpose. The history of policing is, regionally, either rooted in slave catchers or as muscle to disrupt labor organizing.

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#109

Post by constantcrying » Thu, May 01, 2025, 2:10 PM UTC

cruzcampo wrote: post #75

constantcrying wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The union at my workplace is of the opinion that engineering jobs should be outsourced so that factory work can be kept onshore. Do you think I would join an organization like that? There is a clear conflict of interest between blue and white color workers and the more numerous blue color workers push the union to prioritize them.

There should be a separate white collar workers union.

[flagged]

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#110

Post by matkoniecz » Thu, May 01, 2025, 2:10 PM UTC

dcre wrote: post #103

dauertewigkeit wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes solidarity between workers possible is the homogeneity of their labour. This condition is not present for tech workers. Labour market conditions are completely different from those of say, a meat processing plant or a factory assembly line.

This is the exactly the right kind of question to be asking, but I think your conclusion is wrong. Why think the painters and the welder in an auto factory have more in common than 20 different kinds of programmers do?

As far as I know workers in auto factory work on assembly line with very standardized amount of work and with work itself being highly repetitive.

Also, their output is relatively easy to measure and stand arise.

This is not true for programmers, making standard pay increase for programmers less useful as a target. What would be measured? Hours in office? Commits? Lines of code?