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Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

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Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#101

Post by Ylpertnodi »

ramesh31 wrote: post #25

Ask any server if they want to get rid of tips, even given an hourly wage that would be comparable, and the vast majority will say no. Those regulars who come in and slip you a $50 bill every now and then blows any kind of "fair wage" a restaraunt could pay you out of the water. It's like working on comission. Americans are rich (comparatively, globally). For all of our gripes we still have the highest disposable inc…

>If you can't afford to tip, you cant afford to eat out, plain and simple. Go to the grocery store.

Absolute bollocks, but I do like the idea of tipping at the grocery store, rather than just paying an advertised price that i can consider before entering.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#102

Post by thfuran »

janalsncm wrote: post #18

I hate tipping. The last think I want to do after eating is math. And don’t get me started on the inefficient payment ritual we have to endure: flag down the waiter for the check, wait for the check, wait for them to take your cc, wait for them to ring it up and bring it back, then do some math. Unnecessary. That said, minimum wage is minimum wage. If an employee doesn’t make that up in tips, the law is that the rest…

Wage theft is rampant. Something like $10-20 billion a year in the US.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#103

Post by ramesh31 »

joshstrange wrote: post #96
torlok wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many servers do you know to make such a bold assumption? I can't imagine somebody rational picking a roulette wheel over a "comparable" steady income. IMHO "if you can't tip, don't go" ends in a loss of customers, and unemployment.

Not OP but I work in food festival payments and my suggestion that they raise their alcohol prices by a dollar or two and pay that to the bartenders instead of tips was shot down immediately and it was explained that they could not hire bartenders without tips. I can’t speak to if that’s true but what I can tell you is that on credit card transactions they saw a 7.6% tipping rate. The drinks at this festival ranged f…

>All that said, I assume the truth is somewhere closer to this being a collective action problem. Individual server might think that they can beat the curve (perhaps correctly, my numbers are averaged) which causes them to advocate for tips instead of more consistent wages

Precisely. Notice that I said "vast majority", certainly not all. Some people see serving as a labor to perform. Others (rightfully) see it as hospitality, and act acccordingly. It's no surprise who earns more, and who feels resentful of that. At the end of the day you are shucking and jiving to make more money than your physical labor is worth, and some people just don't get that. But the ones who do would never want to give up tips because it is an outsized form of income that a wage could never touch. Your festival example is a bit nontypical as they generally rely more on regulars at a fixed location, which is why servers will usually negotiate a higher hourly rate for things like that.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#104

Post by HDThoreaun »

Gud wrote: post #83
yegle wrote: post #53

One random idea that I had for a while to replace tips: when I get a bill, that's the total amount I need to pay. There should be a line asking me to fill in a percentage. That percent of my bill goes to the service. And most importantly, set the percentage limit to 50%, so owner would have to raise menu price by 100% if they want to simply offset it. This way, customer don't feel like they are paying twice, the serv…

I have even more radical idea: Use the agreed upon price set in the menu.

restaurants have tried this, all the servers quit. It is the servers who are forcing tips on us because they make way more money than they would on wages.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#105

Post by tossandthrow »

scarface_74 wrote: post #73
tossandthrow wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thisnis one of these counter arguments you often hear in favor of low wages in general. And it is a horrendous argument. You are literally actively arguing for greater inequality. If a company can not cover their costs with their revenue, then they need to cease to exists. And ofcause they need to pay fair market wages.

[flagged]

What? The underlying assumption is that, even VC backed companies, can cover their costs with their revenue.

It is just a matter of order. When you have capital heavy enterprises, you usually have your costs before you have your revenue.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#106

Post by HDThoreaun »

torlok wrote: post #87
ramesh31 wrote: post #25

Ask any server if they want to get rid of tips, even given an hourly wage that would be comparable, and the vast majority will say no. Those regulars who come in and slip you a $50 bill every now and then blows any kind of "fair wage" a restaraunt could pay you out of the water. It's like working on comission. Americans are rich (comparatively, globally). For all of our gripes we still have the highest disposable inc…

How many servers do you know to make such a bold assumption? I can't imagine somebody rational picking a roulette wheel over a "comparable" steady income. IMHO "if you can't tip, don't go" ends in a loss of customers, and unemployment.

> How many servers do you know to make such a bold assumption?

All of them. I ask most that I meet. None are willing to give up tips

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#107

Post by gambiting »

It's just incredible how the entirety of the American public got brainwashed into believing that it's their responsibility for subsidising restaurant staff instead of the company that hires them and ultimately reaps the reward of their work. It's so pervasive it's impossible to even have any kind of reasonable argument about it, at best it just ends with "well it is what it is".

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#108

Post by gambiting »

scarface_74 wrote: post #98
nasmorn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is simply a markup and should be reflected in the price. Euro style tipping is annoying enough but percentages in the US are huge. It is really not an afterthought to the whole transaction. Imagine you bought a car and the dealers profit would be totally optional for you to decide. The situation is frankly ludicrous

If they say up front on every menu that the tip is included and the servers/bartenders are up front and you can actually remove it (I guess you can put less on the bottom line), what’s the issue? Taxes also aren’t included in the menu price. I can’t imagine any of the servers who don’t like the status quo or that would come out better even if they made $20 an hour.

>>Taxes also aren’t included in the menu price

That's insane as well. Why aren't they?

>>If they say up front on every menu that the tip is included and the servers/bartenders are up front and you can actually remove it (I guess you can put less on the bottom line), what’s the issue?

Nothing. Some restaurants in London started doing this now, the menu says a service charge of 10% will apply unless you ask to remove it and very few people have any issue with it.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#109

Post by gambiting »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #104
Gud wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have even more radical idea: Use the agreed upon price set in the menu.

restaurants have tried this, all the servers quit. It is the servers who are forcing tips on us because they make way more money than they would on wages.

So what, America is stuck and nothing can ever change from now until eternity?

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#110

Post by switch007 »

vldmrs wrote: post #14

As a European, I can safely say that tipping in American restaurants is one of the most unusual things I remember about America. The amount of tips is huge and they are demanded of you everywhere

That and disappearing with your card, swiping it with only some kind of implicit authorisation, doing some kind of pre-auth (?), which is then released/finalised once you add the tip and sign the receipt ? (If I understood it correctly)
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