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DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

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Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#101

Post by signatoremo »

stevage wrote: post #90
amarant wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well enlighten me then, What's wrong with helping marine biologists trying to make sense of dolphin language?

How would you respond if asked you to explain why a tobacco company sponsoring a kid's sporting event might be anything less than wonderful?

Terrible analogy. This is not sponsoring but research. Google didn’t just give money in exchange for publicity. Google has traditionally invested in fundamental research that isn't commercially potential, at least in the short term.

If a tobacco company invested in lung cancer research that resulted in some treatment breakthroughs, that research should be celebrated, while their main business should continue to be condemned.

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#102

Post by lotyrin »

amarant wrote: post #74
lotyrin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"virtue signalling" really is one of those words/turns of phrase that needs to be put on a high shelf. Plenty of people genuinely dislike the concentration of economic and computing power that big tech represents. Them expressing this is not "virtue signaling", it is an authentic moral position they hold. Plenty of people genuinely dislike the disregard for labor and intellectual property rights that anything Gen AI…

None of those points are even remotely relevant in this case, unless you're worried about dolphin-English translators losing their livelihood? Mindlessly parroting such talking points where they're not applicable is also a form of virtue-signalling. And the comments in this thread are predominantly such virtue signalling nonsense.

I don’t remember saying I agree with these positions. I am actually opposed to the idea of making policy decisions based on moral values rather than consequentialist ethics, so I disagree with both.

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#103

Post by lotyrin »

vlovich123 wrote: post #73
lotyrin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"virtue signalling" really is one of those words/turns of phrase that needs to be put on a high shelf. Plenty of people genuinely dislike the concentration of economic and computing power that big tech represents. Them expressing this is not "virtue signaling", it is an authentic moral position they hold. Plenty of people genuinely dislike the disregard for labor and intellectual property rights that anything Gen AI…

I believe it meets the definition of virtue signaling to express a position you don’t do anything to advocate - which is the vast majority of opinions expressed on the Internet. It can be a sincerely held belief but if you’re not taking action around it I don’t see any difference from the corporate example you gave.

I suspect that the people that dislike supporting Google probably don’t support Google. I imagine that the people who dislike supporting generative AI do not support or use it? Why are you assuming they are hypocrites?

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#104

Post by surajrmal »

stevage wrote: post #90
amarant wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well enlighten me then, What's wrong with helping marine biologists trying to make sense of dolphin language?

How would you respond if asked you to explain why a tobacco company sponsoring a kid's sporting event might be anything less than wonderful?

This is closer to being upset at any and all innovations done by an American because the USA does some terrible things. Not all parts of Google are directly tainted by ads and the people on these teams genuinely think they are working on important problems that help advance humanity. I don't think they are wrong to feel that way.

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#105

Post by dudeinjapan »

amarant wrote: post #44
ZeroCool2u wrote: post #12

Wow, there's a lot of cynicism in this thread, even for HN. Regardless of whether or not it works perfectly, surely we can all relate to the childhood desire to 'speak' to animals at one point or another? You can call it a waste of resources or someones desperate attempt at keeping their job if you want, but these are marine biologists. I imagine cross species communication would be a major achievement and seems like…

It's trendy to hate Google, and even more trendy to hate anything AI. The cynicism on display here is little more than virtue signalling and/or upvote farming. Sad to see such thoughtless behaviour has reached even this bastion of reason.

[dead]

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#106

Post by zeroping »

srean wrote: post #61
zoogeny wrote: post #53

Not directly related, but one of those stories that is so bizarre you almost can't believe it isn't made up. There was a NASA funded attempt to communicate with Dolphins. This eccentric scientist created a house that was half water (a series of connected pools) and half dry spaces. A woman named Margaret Howe Lovatt lived full-time with the Dolphins attempting to learn a shared language between them. Things went comp…

Know the story. Such a tragic end.

And it's a story that haunts the marine biology field. Imagine having to explain that one every time someone asks about it.

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#108

Post by tenuousemphasis »

efitz wrote: post #86
9dev wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, like, we could stop ravaging the oceans by industrial fishing, stop pretending magical technology will save the day, and try to limit our resource consumption to sustainable levels? Humanity’s relationship with animals is so schizophrenic. On the one hand, let’s try to learn how to talk to cute dolphins and chat with them what it’s like to swim! , and on the other, well yeah that steak on my table may have once l…

Humans are omnivores. I am unapologetic about obeying biological imperatives to eat other animals. At the same time, I want to be as humane as practical; I don’t want to cause needless suffering to any creature. If I kill a bug, I don’t want it to suffer. Same with food animals. The more like me an animal is, the less I want to eat it. There are a lot of humans. Any action to forcefully reduce the number of humans or…

Really? You cannot fathom an animal population that has exceeded it's ecosystem's capacity and has no predators so needs to be culled?

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#109

Post by pizza »

srean wrote: post #13
charcircuit wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>To understand their language we need shared experiences, shared emotions, common internal worlds Why? With modern AI there exists unsupervised learning for translation where you don't have to explicitly make translation pairs between the 2 languages. It seems possible to eventually create a way to translate without having to have a teaching process for individual words like you describe.

Teach the meaning and understanding of 'chrome red' to a chilf blind from birth.

https://www.boredpanda.com/color-descriptions-blind-people/

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#110

Post by [deleted] »

ZeroCool2u wrote: post #12

Wow, there's a lot of cynicism in this thread, even for HN. Regardless of whether or not it works perfectly, surely we can all relate to the childhood desire to 'speak' to animals at one point or another? You can call it a waste of resources or someones desperate attempt at keeping their job if you want, but these are marine biologists. I imagine cross species communication would be a major achievement and seems like…

[deleted]
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