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The dark side of the Moomins

newstatesman.com

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Re: The dark side of the Moomins

#101

Post by mrmlz »

i_hate_moomins wrote: post #76
TeMPOraL wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been listening to Moomin audiobooks and reading some of the books to my wife in recent years, and I started to spot some of the more adult/darker subtext in it (I'm still processing the one where the Moominpappa makes the entire family move to a lighthouse, and Moominmamma is desperately trying to cope with growing depression). Still, I have an answer for the author's conundrum, that's accurate for a significant…

Light hearted? Suitable for small children? Are you kidding me. I'm in my mid-30's and still remember nightmares those stupid series gave me when I was in kindergarten. It was X-Files-tier scary ("The X Files" being other show aired by polish TV around same time), masquarading behind cute animations. How can anyone in their right mind call the episode where the Moomintroll swaps bodies with Stinky lighthearted and po…

I agree there is a scene with the Groke when everything freezes and the moomins are inside their home.. That was freakishly scary.

Other than than the Moomins are pretty great. I got the branded coffee cups now (even with the Groke!)

Re: The dark side of the Moomins

#104

Post by Timon3 »

trhway wrote: post #99
adrianN wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of those stories try to teach children that going alone into the woods is a very bad idea. You have to read them in the historic context; don’t think they’re particularly suitable for modern children.

well, we may adapt them to what happens to the Red Hood when she crosses the road incorrectly and at the wrong place - not much different than meeting a hungry wolf. We may even add a video or two to spike the imagination and burn the lesson into the memory.

Seems like "Hans-guck-in-die-Luft" (seems to be "Johnny-Head-in-the-Air"?) is predestined for this.

Re: The dark side of the Moomins

#105

Post by bazoom42 »

gs17 wrote: post #57
bazoom42 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK but the article in question describes and reviews the books and illustrations by the Finnish artist Tove Jansson. It is not about a tv-show.

People like the animation too, there's no reason to gatekeep Moomin of all things.

I’m not making a value judgement. In particular the Polish animations are very beautiful.

But the article describes some specific themes in Tove Janssons books which are just not present in the animations.

Re: The dark side of the Moomins

#106

Post by culebron21 »

impossiblefork wrote: post #64
culebron21 wrote: post #50

Question to Swedes: what were you child impressions of "Pettson och Findus"? I read it to children as an adult, and impressions are that it tells of the funny & sad sides of taking care of children, and I sympathize to Pettson, of course. I wonder how you saw it as children. On topic: interesting read. I'd never think these stories had so much dark side to them. I got all 9 stories in 3 books at the age of 11 and rea…

I liked Pettson because he's awesome and invents things. I think he's like a physical version of the guy who writes a bunch scripts that together are able to do all his work. Findus is more of experimenter. He comes up with an idea about something, and ends up following that idea so that it gets tested. He isn't a systematic, scientific experimenter though, since he's a cat. I also liked all the little animals. To co…

Interesting. I've only watched Soviet cartoons about Moomins, so no idea what's no dreadful in the Dutch one.

Re: The dark side of the Moomins

#107

Post by jnurmine »

i_hate_moomins wrote: post #76
TeMPOraL wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been listening to Moomin audiobooks and reading some of the books to my wife in recent years, and I started to spot some of the more adult/darker subtext in it (I'm still processing the one where the Moominpappa makes the entire family move to a lighthouse, and Moominmamma is desperately trying to cope with growing depression). Still, I have an answer for the author's conundrum, that's accurate for a significant…

Light hearted? Suitable for small children? Are you kidding me. I'm in my mid-30's and still remember nightmares those stupid series gave me when I was in kindergarten. It was X-Files-tier scary ("The X Files" being other show aired by polish TV around same time), masquarading behind cute animations. How can anyone in their right mind call the episode where the Moomintroll swaps bodies with Stinky lighthearted and po…

I've not seen other Moomin TV-series than the one made in Japan, so I can't comment on the others. The Japanese-made TV-series was probably watched by almost all children of a certain age group in Finland. Of course not all children liked the series or some episodes etc. but I'd say the vast majority did.

And yes, empirically, there were several "scary" things which freaked out the smaller children but were just amusing for an older child. The scary parts usually had a logical explanation or a backstory which made sense (or reflection with an adult made it make sense).

For example (I hope I remember all the details right):

The angry Ant Lion preying in a sandpit: eventually the Moomins manage to shrink it to peanut-size with the Wizard's hat, and it's not so scary anymore. It's still an Ant Lion, but very small, and the voice is high-pitched. Why isn't it scary anymore?

The Groke is scary as it stares while making gnarling sounds and all other characters are afraid of it, but The Groke doesn't want to harm anyone. In some episode a character explains that The Groke is actually very lonely. So it follows people as it wants to hang around them, but expresses itself in a scary way and since The Groke unvillingly freezes things where it goes, others avoid it.

The Wizard was dressed in dark clothes, looked scary and rode on a flying panther. But while The Wizard had a stern face and voice, he did not want harm to anyone and helped Moomins too.

Stinky may have a scary appearance, but also he is is not evil as such, just smells bad and does mischief like steals stuff. Which is why the characters are not so fond of him.

The Hattifatteners are like mushrooms, they grow from seeds, and move about, trying to reach the horizon in groups. They are drawn to thunder and electricity and they can zap someone with electricity if one touches the charged-up Hattifatteners. I always interpreted them like a force of nature, they're not looking to harm anyone, and are no more evil than wind that falls a tree is evil.

Re: The dark side of the Moomins

#108

Post by justaswede »

culebron21 wrote: post #50

Question to Swedes: what were you child impressions of "Pettson och Findus"? I read it to children as an adult, and impressions are that it tells of the funny & sad sides of taking care of children, and I sympathize to Pettson, of course. I wonder how you saw it as children. On topic: interesting read. I'd never think these stories had so much dark side to them. I got all 9 stories in 3 books at the age of 11 and rea…

I did like me some Petsson och Findus. Besides agreeing with sibling commenter, the melancholic story with the fox and the fireworks was impactful. The dark moments and their resolution were in general the most meaningful. Fully agree with the notion that it's misguided to deprave ("spare") children from struggles and difficult questions of life. Nothing graphical or depraved but you get the point.

As for the Moomins, I don't know what you all are on about in the comments. I'm with OP on this one. Lasting child Moomin impressions:

- Original comic: Dark, heavy, existential, anxious, depressed, sarcastic, "this is probably not for kids". Still loved them and still find them underrated and wish more people read them.

- Mainstream TV cartoon: Fun fantastical times. And Groke (aka Mårran) was indeed nightmare material

- Newspaper comic: Couldn't keep track

- TV live action: Now this was the true nightmare material. I think it was supposed to be lighthearted but my brother at 37 still talks of how it traumatized him.

Re: The dark side of the Moomins

#109

Post by eqqn »

philips wrote: post #21
tikotus wrote: post #5

I'm not sure how tongue in cheek this was, but I assume it's serious. Either way, it's a fun and smart read. The article spots well the dark side of the moomins, but in my opinion goes too deep into it. My disagreements boil down to this: "One of the oddest aspects of the Moomin phenomenon is how these complex tales of apocalypse, breakdown and disfunction have been consistently misread as cutesy celebrations of dome…

I love the books, I have read them all to my kids, and I agree that I think the article takes its thesis too far. The books are strange tales. They have dark undertones. And sometimes the adults take actions that only someone with life experience would really understand (e.g. Moominpappa wanting to suddenly upend everything in the families life and move to an isolated island). But, my kids mostly pick up on the adven…

Another way to view it is a series that accompanies a child to young adult years. (It took me a few years to get through the series inbetween other books. I assume many bedtime reads for the first few, and independent reading for later ones). What starts as fantastical and whimsical, indeed becomes more somber and concerning interpersonal dynamics, especially those within Moomin family and those around them. "Moominpapa at Sea" is probably most relatable to adult readers. The underlying message of family unity, finding ways to cope with certain events, parenting styles, need to break routines (picnics), unrequited crushes.

Moominland Midwinter is interesting character study too, with sporty "artistic" coded Hemulen proving too much for most of the cast to handle, the forgetful grandpa. Perhaps the message was it is okay to not be friends with everyone as it is a bother.

Compare it to "Finn Family Moomintroll" which is just a constantly stacking ridiculous lighthearted escapade with a few more mature jokes mixed in.

Re: The dark side of the Moomins

#110

Post by bazoom42 »

trhway wrote: post #79
i_hate_moomins wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Light hearted? Suitable for small children? Are you kidding me. I'm in my mid-30's and still remember nightmares those stupid series gave me when I was in kindergarten. It was X-Files-tier scary ("The X Files" being other show aired by polish TV around same time), masquarading behind cute animations. How can anyone in their right mind call the episode where the Moomintroll swaps bodies with Stinky lighthearted and po…

i wonder what you'd think about Brothers Grimm's tales :) And in general children folk tales in many countries do contain strong violence, cruelty, torture, etc. if you'd focus on those details.

Some of the Grimms tales are incredibly gruesome, but it may be a misunderstanding to consider them childrens folk tales. Grimm collected stories told among adults.

In the 19th century it became a trend to publish fairy tales aimed towards children. But these were often sanitized versions of the stories told by adults.

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