Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Photographs of 19th Century Japan

cosmographia.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 137 posts

Re: Photographs of 19th Century Japan

#101

Post by ziddoap »

antonkochubey wrote: post #94
pjc50 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, Sakoku passim, you can't really prevent homogenization without entirely abandoning the 20th century (heck, 19th century!) travel revolution. You'd need a global ban on air travel, TV, and Internet. The alternative is a sort of re-enactment/cosplay approach where people consciously try to keep local traditions and minority languages (e.g. Gaelic, Sami) alive.

Long distance traveling was invented much earlier than 20th and even 19th century.

Speed and scale of long-distance travel are obviously the relevant factors, not just "is it possible to go far".

Air travel is faster than horse, and carries more people.

Re: Photographs of 19th Century Japan

#102

Post by TimedToasts »

hoseyor wrote: post #33

[flagged]

Along a similar tangent - we are losing a lot of authenticity with the loss of culture. When the younger ones complain that 'nothing is real', this is a portion of what they mean.

A big aspect of authenticity is uniqueness and modern culture and political thought are absolutely counter-aligned to this idea.

Re: Photographs of 19th Century Japan

#103

Post by FalseNutrition »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #37
hoseyor wrote: post #33

[flagged]

You’re really underplaying how awful the life was for an average person in before-times. Sure, pretty buildings, different cultures, and etc. were more prominent. But also an average person would never be able to enjoy those in their lifetimes.

I'm not buying this. All these claims rely on some nebulous "poor people" who were kept hidden away somewhere. There is no good reason to doubt that these photos show regular people, and the buildings they lived in.

Re: Photographs of 19th Century Japan

#104

Post by ben_w »

antonkochubey wrote: post #94
pjc50 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, Sakoku passim, you can't really prevent homogenization without entirely abandoning the 20th century (heck, 19th century!) travel revolution. You'd need a global ban on air travel, TV, and Internet. The alternative is a sort of re-enactment/cosplay approach where people consciously try to keep local traditions and minority languages (e.g. Gaelic, Sami) alive.

Long distance traveling was invented much earlier than 20th and even 19th century.

Here's an isochrone — travel time — map from 1881, centred on London. Note the legend uses tens of days to measure time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Isochronic_Passage_Chart_...

Re: Photographs of 19th Century Japan

#105

Post by MisterTea »

gibagger wrote: post #70
canpan wrote: post #27

Quite a few of those still exist! * Wysteria Vine. It is not written, but I am pretty sure it's Kameido Shrine. You need to come at the right time to see flowers like that though. * Nikko All pictures that show shrine and pagoda * Osaka Castle * Daibutsu, at Kamakura * Jinrikishia Now it's for tourists, but you can ride in Asakusa. * View Ojigoku on Great Boiling Springs, Hakone. * Wrestlers. Sumo still exists and lo…

Unfortunately those pretty houses come at a cost. Traditional materials and techniques usually come at a price. Lots of wood and joinery work needs to be done, much of it by hand. They are also not well insulated so hard to keep warm in winter. They're so pretty though!. You can still see a few of these houses and their traditional gardens in some of the wealthy, old-money smelling parts of Kyoto.

You can certainly combine modern construction techniques with traditional looks. Don't expect 1:1 looks but you can make them less boring.

Re: Photographs of 19th Century Japan

#106

Post by MisterTea »

canpan wrote: post #27

Quite a few of those still exist! * Wysteria Vine. It is not written, but I am pretty sure it's Kameido Shrine. You need to come at the right time to see flowers like that though. * Nikko All pictures that show shrine and pagoda * Osaka Castle * Daibutsu, at Kamakura * Jinrikishia Now it's for tourists, but you can ride in Asakusa. * View Ojigoku on Great Boiling Springs, Hakone. * Wrestlers. Sumo still exists and lo…

> Now all houses look boring. Only recently people thought to build pretty houses again.

When I visited Japan last year most of my pictures were of old "crummy" looking buildings and older homes. They had character vs the modern flat buildings popping up all over. I even snapped pictures of the overhead wiring, utility poles and building connections. I now understand the prevalence of overhead wires and utility poles in manga/anime. I even read a white paper on Tepco's commitment to move as much of these old overhead wires underground.

Re: Photographs of 19th Century Japan

#107

Post by tokioyoyo »

FalseNutrition wrote: post #103
tokioyoyo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re really underplaying how awful the life was for an average person in before-times. Sure, pretty buildings, different cultures, and etc. were more prominent. But also an average person would never be able to enjoy those in their lifetimes.

I'm not buying this. All these claims rely on some nebulous "poor people" who were kept hidden away somewhere. There is no good reason to doubt that these photos show regular people, and the buildings they lived in.

Both of my grandpas (who have passed away long ago), would beg to differ. People, especially when taking photos wasn't basically free, don't take photos of ordinary things. If you see 1 rose among 500 tulips, that will catch your eye. And vice versa.

Poor people were not hidden away, it's just their lives weren't that beautiful to be shown and paraded around.

Re: Photographs of 19th Century Japan

#108

Post by ben_w »

FalseNutrition wrote: post #103
tokioyoyo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re really underplaying how awful the life was for an average person in before-times. Sure, pretty buildings, different cultures, and etc. were more prominent. But also an average person would never be able to enjoy those in their lifetimes.

I'm not buying this. All these claims rely on some nebulous "poor people" who were kept hidden away somewhere. There is no good reason to doubt that these photos show regular people, and the buildings they lived in.

Mm. When I go on holiday, I take notice of mundane things in the new place that are different to mundane things in my normal life. Street furniture, pylons, graffiti, the contents of supermarket shelves, dusty unpaved roads[0].

But over the years I have come to realise that I'm very odd.

When you go on holiday, how many photos do you take of regular people, vs. tourist attractions? Or, in reverse, do you know regular people[1] who often find tourists visiting their area like to take photos of their homes?

[0] When I visited Nairobi a decade back, one of my photos was along the lines of this Google Street View image: https://www.google.com/maps/@-1.2811367,36.9148575,3a,75y,17...

[1] This site being what it is, there's a decent chance you know someone world-famous and people do actually want photos of their home. They're not "regular people".

Re: Photographs of 19th Century Japan

#109

Post by triceratops »

damnitbuilds wrote: post #83
hoseyor wrote: post #33

[flagged]

Hmm. If we want to preserve our diverse cultures, then we have to do more to defend our own cultures against immigrants imposing their cultures over them. How you do that without being outright racist is the tough part. And I say this as a migrated child of migrants.

> we have to do more to defend our own cultures

What does "defend" mean?

> against immigrants imposing their cultures

How can a minority "impose" its culture?

> How you do that without being outright racist

You can start by not saying "defending" and "imposing". There's no attack. "Defending" only means enjoying and promoting all the elements of your existing culture - language, music, entertainment, food, dress, architecture, religious and other traditional celebrations.

Immigrants like to be part of the mainstream so most of them will participate, unless made to feel unwelcome, usually bringing some of their own food to the party (always a plus).

Post reply on HN