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Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

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Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#101

Post by rendaw »

hyperadvanced wrote: post #83
Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would someone not then just tell every recruiter/company they are interviewing with that they already have offers are are in the pipeline at other companies even if they don't. We've heard nowadays how hard it is to even get to the interview for many companies so theres probably plenty of candidates who do not have many other offers prepared or even close to prepared. Another issue is timing. Theres been times wh…

Presumably there’s a karmic payoff for this, or someone at X company knows someone at Y who can tell them whether or not you’re actually in the pipeline or have received an offer. Perhaps there’s an element of bluffing or calling bluffs in all of this.

Would you be compelled to tell them the offer was from company Y? Or are you saying this is all predicated on Y being a famous company?

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#102

Post by mixmastamyk »

hobs wrote: post #82
mixmastamyk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I've received one job offer in the last decade. One. Took me a year and a half of searching to get it. Don't skip the degree or get older. ;-)

3 companies in a row I got recruited by folks from other companies - skipped the degree and about to turn 40, so older is relative - the biggest diff I have had is I am obvious and honest that I am always looking and actively build the network, especially the youngins - I have gotten 4 jobs (and its accelerating given the last 3) from folks I helped teach or train in the past who went on to do something interesting.

Hmmm, the nugget about focusing on younger folks you've trained sounds interesting, I hadn't previously thought of that. However, there have been very few juniors around in my last few jobs. Maybe because they were contracts.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#103

Post by crazygringo »

neilv wrote: post #32

> Rule #5 of negotiation: don’t be the decision-maker. Even if you don’t particularly care what your friends/family/husband/mother thinks, by mentioning them, you’re no longer the only person the recruiter needs to win over. There’s no point in them trying to bully and intimidate you; the “true decision-maker” is beyond their reach. It's a very old thing in general, not just in job-hunting. And sometimes "I have to d…

I don't know why a listener wouldn't think it's for real?

A new job can involve relocation, or if it's in the same city, prevent the spouse from a desired relocation.

Not to mention people do tend to evaluate major life decisions with trusted friends etc. Discuss whether to job-hop now or wait to see if something better shows up in six months.

I'm intrigued by your perspective that someone would assume this was non-literal or a bullshitter?

I mean yes, it might be buying time, but as a recruiter why would you even care? The person wants extra time, they've given a valid reason for it, so you give it to them within reason unless it's an emergency and the position needs someone in the chair on Monday and there's another candidate who can take it. I don't think they would bother to think about it any more deeply than that.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#104

Post by sgustard »

parpfish wrote: post #65

I wish I could take this advice, but my imposter syndrome is just too strong and you cant just turn it off with logical explanations. By the time I get an offer, I already feel like I’m already uncomfortable about all the bragging I’ve had to do to hype myself up. Asking for more in a negotiation is just a recipe for even worse guilt during the onboarding process (which is already a fraught time for feeling like an i…

Imagine meeting co-workers on your first day: "This is parpfish, a rock star who is making twice what all of you make. He is one of those 10x engineers you all hear about. Just stay out of his way while he re-architects all our systems!" I think I should have taken the lower offer?

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#105

Post by ianbutler »

taklimakan wrote: post #12

This is all very interesting, but is complete fiction for most readers. 99% of job seekers aren’t going to receive competing offers from multiple companies conveniently at the same time.

I have had this situation multiple times in my life. It was probably a lot more common for tech in the last 10 years especially in the US.

Edit: I'm seeing a lot of comments on this thread that has not aligned with my experience. I have, in tech, as a software engineer used multiple offers to increase a lower offer by like 15% for a company I preferred and I have also held an offer on the hook so to speak to use it leverage someone else to good effect.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#106

Post by aclimatt »

This is all great advice especially at the 101 level. At the 201 level, you can start to skip a lot of these formalities by straightening out the information asymmetry and really having a crisp position on the value exchange.

- Your #1 goal should actually be knowing the top of the range of what this role is worth in the market. Once you figure that out, the whole "don't say the first number" rule is BS. Set expectations at the high water mark and then your job isn't to negotiate on salary; it's to negotiate if you're worth it

- Now that you know the maximum price this role (or product, or service -- it's all the same!) can be set to, you need to convince the other side that you deliver the requisite amount of value to justify the price. Like the article said, talk about your impact. Your BATNA. Your opportunity cost. All of these things are real and support why you are worth it

Once you transition from negotiating on price alone to negotiating ROI, everything changes. Try your best to solve the asymmetry, set the price and move on, find your leverage, and then make a compelling case. That's how you win

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#107

Post by madebylaw »

iamleppert wrote: post #77

When negotiating with a startup, especially a founder, always ask for two offers: one with a higher equity offer and another with a higher cash offer. This allows the other party to still feel in control of the negotiation process but tells you two important pieces of information: the first is what the “top” number is for both equity and cash. The second is how much they really are valuing the equity portion. Dependi…

This is good advice. As a technical founder I have been through many offer ceremonies and I would always make 2 versions of an offer, one equity weighted and the other base salary weighted. The math should be easy if you’ve already had a priced round and you should be telling the candidate the price and fma of your equity anyway. I would say 90% took the higher base. And I wouldn’t up both unless they were a truly great candidate.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#108

Post by madebylaw »

whall6 wrote: post #72

Having worked in investment banking (a job where your only true value add is your network and ability to negotiate) I would like to say two things: 1. I second everything in the article. 2. You would be surprised to learn how important rule #7 is. We would build entire presentations that we would provide to the other side of the table in negotiations just to reinforce our points. Basically putting ourselves in the po…

Classic banker tactic, I love it. “Overwhelm them with data”

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#110

Post by sbrother »

dlevine wrote: post #90
silisili wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has that been recently? I've read the market has been brutal lately, but I haven't had to look myself, thankfully.

I’m job searching right now, and it’s definitely not the doom and gloom that I’m hearing about. I think it’s a challenging environment for developers who are either inexperienced or who have skills that are out of date. I have found that companies are a bit more picky than i remember about knowing the exact tech stack they use, but they are still making offers and those offers are pretty good. Note that I’m applying…

I'm in loops at multiple FAANGs right now and it's not even that bad. Feels similar to when I did this last time? But I do get the impression that they're all just throwing out any resumes that don't already have a FAANG on them. If you're already in the club then it's ok, but I think it's harder than ever to join the club so to speak.
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