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France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

arstechnica.com

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Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#101

Post by 85392_school »

AlanYx wrote: post #78
crazygringo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely confused. Where's the double part? When I install an app I get a single popup asking whether I want to share with advertisers or not. I don't have to do anything twice. Is it different in Europe or something? Is there a second popup there, and if so, what?

This is for system-level permissions. In third-party apps, the app asks whether you want to enable X permission and then you get an OS-level confirmation request. It's not just in Europe. Likely they'll fall back in Europe to double-prompting as well in system apps.

Do we only care now that the permissions being requested are related to tracking?

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#102

Post by fnordsensei »

joshuaissac wrote: post #97
frumper wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Domino's doesn't have to ask twice. They're choosing to.

> Domino's doesn't have to ask twice. They're choosing to. According to the article, the French agency believes they would have to ask twice: > Third-party publishers "cannot rely on the ATT framework to comply with their legal obligations," so they "must continue to use their own consent collection solution," the French agency said.

I always thought it was because where you to deny in the Apple popup, that decision is “final”, whereas if they can gauge your mood before that, they can keep pestering you about it in the future.

I’ve seen confirm (app) -> confirm (Apple), but never deny (app) -> deny (Apple).

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#103

Post by freetime2 »

MonkeyClub wrote: post #96

150M is ridiculously low for a company with a 3.34T market cap. It's the equivalent of fining a millionaire 150 EUR, or a regular person fifteen cents. That's not a fine, it's a show put on for people who can't do division.

Agree it's a slap on the wrist for Apple. But the punishment fits the "crime" in this case, in my opinion. Enough to pay for the legal costs of enforcement, and get Apple's attention. But nothing terribly punitive, which I don't think is warranted in this case.

I believe Apple's goal with the popups is to protect consumers' privacy from 3rd party apps, which is admirable. But where they went wrong is that they didn't apply the same process to themselves.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#104

Post by pertymcpert »

microtonal wrote: post #12
woah wrote: post #3

If the EU isn't fining someone for tracking users too much, they're fining them for not tracking users enough.

That's not what is going on here, right? The complaint is that the consent process is much harder for third-party apps than Apple apps and Apple cannot give itself advantages because Apple is a gatekeeper w.r.t iOS. A simple yes-no for third-party applications makes it easier for the user to reject tracking and doesn't make the process more cluttered than for Apple apps.

Where did you get that part from?

> Third-party publishers "cannot rely on the ATT framework to comply with their legal obligations," so they "must continue to use their own consent collection solution," the French agency said. "The result is that multiple consent pop-ups are displayed, making the use of third-party applications in the iOS environment excessively complex."

It's not harder at all. France are just mad that their small advertisers have to ask for permission again which is their own choice.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#105

Post by pertymcpert »

MonkeyClub wrote: post #96

150M is ridiculously low for a company with a 3.34T market cap. It's the equivalent of fining a millionaire 150 EUR, or a regular person fifteen cents. That's not a fine, it's a show put on for people who can't do division.

Do you actually agree with the fine?

Don't give users a choice in tracking: complaints Give users a choice in tracking: now it's too many pop ups

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#106

Post by arrosenberg »

st3fan wrote: post #100
arrosenberg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's anti-competitive. Apple owns the platform and is giving preference to it's own apps on that platform. Every non-Apple app that competes with an Apple app is harmed.

This is not what this case is about.

Seems like it’s roughly what it is about. Apple has a mandatory consent, but won’t adapt it so that third party apps can integrate their own tracking consent into it. As a result third party apps are treated differently than first party because they have one fewer consent screen. That advantages entrenched incumbents with big, locked-in user bases and disadvantages new entrants. Since Apple owns the platform, it’s anticompetitive to pass regulations (which is what Apple is doing here) that discriminate against other participants in a way that acts as a competitive advantage.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#107

Post by ilnavigante »

drivebyhooting wrote: post #11

Do other apps require double consent or is it actually a dark pattern they’ve adopted: * explain and prompt the user for consent * if they acquiesce pop the real modal * otherwise bide your time and try again later The reason for this is because once you receive a rejection in the official modal you are not allowed to ask again.

Speaking of dark patterns: if you try to initialize your Mac without logging in to your iCloud account, the installation process doesn't ask you to encrypt your drive, so everything is in clear by default...

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#108

Post by eptcyka »

thebruce87m wrote: post #29

> Benoit Coeure, the head of France's competition authority, "told reporters the regulator had not spelled out how Apple should change its app, but that it was up to the company to make sure it now complied with the ruling," Sounds like a good shakedown to me. Wait until they tweak it then fine them again for getting it “wrong”. I wonder if they even got the chance to change anything before they were fined the first…

Funny how this is exactly the process that one has to go through for getting an app through a review for an app store - you're told you've done something wrong, and it is up to you to fix it. The reviewer will never point out the specific issue they have with your submission.

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#109

Post by dkga »

arrosenberg wrote: post #106
st3fan wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not what this case is about.

Seems like it’s roughly what it is about. Apple has a mandatory consent, but won’t adapt it so that third party apps can integrate their own tracking consent into it. As a result third party apps are treated differently than first party because they have one fewer consent screen. That advantages entrenched incumbents with big, locked-in user bases and disadvantages new entrants. Since Apple owns the platform, it’s an…

Yes, but are consumers that knowingly bought into the Apple ecosystem harmed?

Re: France fines Apple €150M for “excessive” pop-ups that let users reject tracking

#110

Post by briandear »

Perhaps they should fine the companies that want to do such intrusive tracking? Apple’s not sharing data with third parties for their internal stuff, that’s a big difference when Dominos wants to share with someone that isn’t Dominos.
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