Live data from Hacker News

A Man Walks into a Bank

ft.com

101–110 of 184 posts

Re: A Man Walks into a Bank

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry I don't understand the scam. How did they make the cashier believe the newspaper was actually cash?

ATMs don't scan a deposited check or cash. They wait for someone in the bank to open it and determine whether it is legit, then the account is credited. But after a while your account becomes "trustworthy" and any deposits are credited to the account before it is checked.

Living in China, I can say that when you deposit, you deposit bills that go through a counter and counterfeit scanner. If any bills don't pass the test, they're separated out and given back to you. You can try to submit again if you wish. It's amazingly efficient and works well. I'm surprised we don't have similar machines in Canada from where I originally hail, especially after the currency revamps.

edit: I have no idea how depositing cheques (checks for you Americans! :D) works here though.

Re: A Man Walks into a Bank

#102
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So... WHAT HAPPENED?" If you want to know what happens next, order our DVD now!

That's not fair. He makes it quite clear at the beginning that the whole story is free but that you will see requests for tips or to buy the DVD. Remember that this story was written in 1995. Internet advertising was generally not available then, and neither was proper etiquette for advertising. I do not blame him for trying to partially monetize his thousands of hours of effort. After all, it's not like he kept the…

You're talking about on his website, from 1995, in which yes he made it clear from the beginning, and he also offered the entire story through to the end for free.

We're talking about the article on FT.com (this actual submission) where there is nothing up front about it, and where, without finishing his story, he ends with the fact that he's telling the story live and how if you pay to see him you can find out the end of the story.

Re: A Man Walks into a Bank

#103

In the Netherlands the use of cheques is abolished in 2002. We all use internet banking now, using (at least) two-factor authentication, and we are able to transfer money from and to our current or savings accounts. Transferring money to other bank accounts (paying rent, paying to friends etc.) is also very easy. Most banks also have mobile applications for smartphones making money transfer even easier. I'm able to t…

In the US with the major banks you can easily transfer between accounts and other accounts in the same bank easily online. As someone noted this article is from the mid 90s and is a little outdated.

Re: A Man Walks into a Bank

#104

Remind me why we still have cheques in our banking system?

It's still an easy way to transfer money between two people, especially if your bank does mobile deposits through a smartphone. At that point, the check is really just a paper record of a transaction you intend to make with the bank account information prefilled for you. You don't have to worry about banks or devices utilizing different technologies, it just works...for the most part.

Re: A Man Walks into a Bank

#105
post #29
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about signatures? Surely the signature has the match the one on file or the cheque bounces?

How would that process work? Check gets deposited in ABC bank (issued by XYZ bank). ABC bank sends a scan of the check to XYZ bank. And XYZ bank has an employee whose job it is to look at every inbound check to make sure the signature matches? Or maybe they have computers to recognize the signature and compare them for similarities. If it's too different, then it's flagged and sent to an employee for further review?…

> Or maybe they have computers to recognize the signature and compare them for similarities. If it's too different, then it's flagged and sent to an employee for further review?

Yeah, that'd be nice, and I think it's well within the grasp of the big banks to deploy some image recognition software to do this, and yet I'm fairly certain they do not. Anecdata to follow...

I recently had a blank check stolen from me and filled out with a completely fake looking signature, it was really almost cartoonish. Yet the bank (Chase) did nothing to stop this from being deposited by the thief, and debiting my account. I only found out a month or so later, and filed a dispute, which they resolved. But the only reason I noticed it was that I don't use checks very often, so even though the amount was not an outrageous sum, it stood out. The bank's suggestion to me, for the future, was to NOT USE CHECKS. Ever. The low level employees at the local branch, when I was there closing the account and opening a new one, told me NOT to order checks at all, and pay rent with a direct transfer or bill-pay feature.

This is what people mean when they say the only innovation in consumer level banking is improvements to ATMs.

Re: A Man Walks into a Bank

#106
I'm surprised that this wasn't considered fraud. Sometimes bank tellers make mistakes, but that shouldn't lead to the bank taking a $95k loss. This guy played a joke on his bank - which would normally be considered illegal, but didn't like that the bank was angry?

Re: A Man Walks into a Bank

#107
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Checks are still useful because most online transfer mechanisms cost money. For example, my bank recently started charging for ACH transfers, and wires are always expensive.

Yeah, exactly. I was going to try some new method (PopMoney?) to pay my roommate for rent and utilities, and then I noticed it cost $1 per transaction. Back to paper checks (= free). It's not the fact that it costs something - a dollar is no big deal - it's the fact that the alternative is free.

I have this problem with paying for Utilities in the States. Both my Electric and Internet allow for auto-pay against my checking account without a fee, but my Natural Gas company uses Western Union for their payment processing, which charge somewhere between a dollar or two per payment as a fee.

The cost of a stamp and the free non-personalized checks from my bank end up being cheaper than paying Western Union every month for the "convenience" of online/electronic payments. My landlord also lives out of state and is an individual, not a large company, so I send her a check every month by snail mail.

You're right, the actual dollar is no big deal, but I continually write their annual survey with remarks about how my Gas Company's online bill pay sucks. I'd rather not pay fee upon fee to do business with a company that feels the need to continually lobby the government for the right to add more fees. Everyone else gets by without having to charge extra for 21st century banking methods.

Re: A Man Walks into a Bank

#108
post #49
post #45

It amazes me everytime, that in the US day-to-day banking still consists mostly of writing, sending and cashing cheques. In germany (I dont know about the rest of Europe, but I guess the situation is similar), cheques are virtually non existent. You can still get and cash them, but you will get weird looks from the person behind the bank counter, most of the time there will be a hefty fee associated with it(I once ca…

Checks are still useful because most online transfer mechanisms cost money. For example, my bank recently started charging for ACH transfers, and wires are always expensive.

Can't you use cash? I honestly can't understand most of the comments as it seems here in Russia there's no concept of a check, or at least no 'real person' ever used anything like that.

Re: A Man Walks into a Bank

#109

This story was from a little while back but what's to stop you just printing a cheque from someone else and paying it into a bank today? There's no alerting to the originator that a cheque's been paid out and there are no obvious authentication tokens on the cheques. Frank Abignale only had to get past an initial look-test so what techniques protect against (and are consistently used) to prevent cheque forgery today?

That's the thing, I'm pretty sure check clearinghouses are near real-time these days. At least in the US. Deposit the check and within a few minutes it'll either clear from the other bank or bounce.

Nope, it's still a batch process. Usually the day's batch is collected and sent to the Fed, and then the bank gets their net debit/credit for all their transactions. It'll generally show in accounts the next morning. (Note that there are many details here about exactly which method is used and if there's a third party exchange).

Checks can come back anywhere from nearly instantly (e.x if there's a bad routing number) to a day or two (insufficient funds, or bad accounts, or unauthorized on a commercial account) to a month or two (unauthorized on a personal account) to many months (fraud, US treasury checks). The last can be a real killer, since they're normally big checks on trustworthy accounts (though, not necessarily from trustworthy intermediates).

Checks are never really cleared, they just haven't bounced yet.

Re: A Man Walks into a Bank

#110

I live in continental Europe, can someone please explain the American cheque system to me? Is it still widely used? We have giro and SEPA transfers. If I want to transfer money to someone, I simply order my bank to withdraw said amount from my account and transfer it to the destination account. I could even do this without having a banking account. Anybody could walk to a post office or bank and pay into someone's ba…

American here. Checks are basically little pieces of paper (about the size of two credit cards; they usually come in a book of 25-50) that allow the recipient to make a demand against my account. I write on the check the name of the recipient, the date, the amount (in two places, one in long form and one in numeric form) and sign the bottom. They have a set amount of time in which they can deposit the check (I think it's somewhere between 30 and 90 days, but I can't remember). The recipient endorses it on the back by signing it and deposits it at their bank, and their bank handles transferring the money between the banks and into the appropriate accounts.

Printed on the bottom of the check is my account number and a routing number for my bank. They're printed in a format called MICR, which uses magnetic ink (or used to, not sure if they still do) so that computers can scan them quickly. When I worked at a grocery store in the 90s, our systems were supposed to actually verify whether or not a check was "good" by checking the amount against the amount available in their accounts. Not sure if this really worked, because I never saw a check get rejected.

It used to take several days for the whole thing to play out. What would happen is that, when the recipient deposited one of my checks, their bank would credit them the amount of the check immediately (there are some limitations on this depending on the size of the check; banks have various policies about that) and the check would enter the inter-bank system. A day or so later, the actual amount would be withdrawn from my account.

In most places, passing a bad check (called "bouncing") is a crime, though most banks will provide some type of overdraft protection (usually with an accompanying steep fee) to keep you from getting in trouble with the law.

Checks were widely used up until the early-mid 2000s, when debit cards started to become widespread. These days, they are primarily used by the elderly who refuse to adopt newer technology, in businesses that do not use direct deposit, and in complex financial situations (such as purchasing real estate). Other than that, the vast majority of purchases in America happen via the card networks.

I write maybe three checks a year and receive maybe two. Everything else is done online or by the card networks. And best of all, when I receive a check, my bank (USAA) lets me just take a picture of it with my iPhone and immediately credits me the amount, as a scan is considered a valid reproduction of the check.

Post reply on HN