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Imagine telling 2010 devs that in 2025, collapsing a div would require $8/ month

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Re: Imagine telling 2010 devs that in 2025, collapsing a div would require $8/ month

#101

Post by nunez »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #36
maccard wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in a hobby band, and Spotify is important but we’ve made absolutely nothing from it with a few thousand listens. 50 people buy our album digitally and we have enough to record another track.

That's good to know. Yeah, I think Spotify is great for discovering new bands, but if you want them to keep going you gotta chip in. We need more than just the same top 40 artists in our world.

i don't think spotify is good for discovery, unless "discovery" means "more of the same."

i've taken to terrestrial radio for true discovery and bandcamp for digging into a genre.

Re: Imagine telling 2010 devs that in 2025, collapsing a div would require $8/ month

#102

Post by rchaud »

akoboldfrying wrote: post #90
phkahler wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Software is weird because it is expected that should be free (as in beer) for most consumers while while being for profit and giving high salaries to its workers. I struggle to think of any other privately owned sector of the economy that works that way. Software is the only industry where the marginal cost of the product is ZERO. All software you use has already been developed, you are presumably paying for updat…

> Software is the only industry where the marginal cost of the product is ZERO. The same is true of anything where all the value is in the bytes -- news, film, music, the written word.

Not so for movies, the marketing budget and press junket tours end up costing as much as the film production itself. Music is also pay-for-play, but buying off radio stations and promotional spots on Spotify is not nearly as expensive as movies.

Re: Imagine telling 2010 devs that in 2025, collapsing a div would require $8/ month

#103

Post by UncleEntity »

saghm wrote: post #72
alehlopeh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one needs hairdressers? How do you figure?

As someone who spent most of my life with short hair but only started growing it longer in the past few years, I suspect that a lot of people who haven't had long hair drastically underestimate how much work goes into keeping it healthy and neat.

Nah, just stop shaving as well and people compliment you on the commitment to the beard. Added bonus for the Unabomber vibe.

Re: Imagine telling 2010 devs that in 2025, collapsing a div would require $8/ month

#105

Post by micromacrofoot »

chii wrote: post #95
micromacrofoot wrote: post #66

This is absurd, I do agree with this framing... but rather than trash the company in the comments I'm curious about what people think. Would ads be better? If JSFiddle were your project, what would you do to provide yourself a salary? I think we've discovered that the "buy me a coffee" strategy is just that, enough to generate a little bonus income... but is it simply unreasonable to expect that a project on the web…

> what would you do to provide yourself a salary? the fundamental answer is that you cannot, because this site does not produce sufficient value for the cost to provide that salary (without resorting to ads i meant). And in fact, the majority of sites are of this nature. The value provided simply does not support the continued cost of maintenance and operations. > have our lifestyles become unsustainable? i would arg…

> It's a miracle so many sites, and products, have held out due to sheer obstinance of their creator to push thru. It's altruistic, but like fighting the tide, eventually they get worn down.

Yes I feel the same way, but it feels so sad to me. These sites are valuable to many people! I'd imagine millions are familiar with JSFiddle but our idea of what things should cost is so warped. Then there's the fact that even if I were ok with giving JSFiddle a fraction of a dollar every time I visited it, I have no great way of doing it that's not ad-based.

I hope we can find something more reliably between enshittification and donation.

Re: Imagine telling 2010 devs that in 2025, collapsing a div would require $8/ month

#106

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

nunez wrote: post #101
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's good to know. Yeah, I think Spotify is great for discovering new bands, but if you want them to keep going you gotta chip in. We need more than just the same top 40 artists in our world.

i don't think spotify is good for discovery, unless "discovery" means "more of the same." i've taken to terrestrial radio for true discovery and bandcamp for digging into a genre.

Honestly, I've found Youtube Music great for discovery. There's a lot of metal bands that are small enough that you can't find their album preorders on Amazon that I found only by following the musical recommendations down the rabbit hole. In my city smaller bands from Europe don't tend to get a lot of playtime on the radio.

Re: Imagine telling 2010 devs that in 2025, collapsing a div would require $8/ month

#107

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

maccard wrote: post #50
crtasm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you have a Bandcamp store, have their zero fees Friday events been helpful to your band?

I had a look and it doesn’t seem to. There’s basically no tail on our last release so what we actually need is more eyeballs, which means making more content. The marketplace is saturated, like the App Store, so really our audience is coming from organic growth - playing gigs, and trying to get radio play or playlisted on Spotify

I'm trying to think of a non-tacky/doxxing(if you care) way you could drop your band here so those interested could have a listen.

Re: Imagine telling 2010 devs that in 2025, collapsing a div would require $8/ month

#108

Post by crtasm »

maccard wrote: post #50
crtasm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you have a Bandcamp store, have their zero fees Friday events been helpful to your band?

I had a look and it doesn’t seem to. There’s basically no tail on our last release so what we actually need is more eyeballs, which means making more content. The marketplace is saturated, like the App Store, so really our audience is coming from organic growth - playing gigs, and trying to get radio play or playlisted on Spotify

Good luck and do keep reminding your fans to follow you on there, maybe you have a demo/live recording that could be released on the day if nothing new? I get a lot of emails from followed artists doing a temporary discount code but even just a "hey this is a great day to buy our music!" + reminding me of past releases makes it more likely I'll visit and buy something.

Re: Imagine telling 2010 devs that in 2025, collapsing a div would require $8/ month

#109

Post by rchaud »

catapart wrote: post #13
Sytten wrote: post #10

Software is weird because it is expected that should be free (as in beer) for most consumers while while being for profit and giving high salaries to its workers. I struggle to think of any other privately owned sector of the economy that works that way.

Music pretty squarely fits that bill. We used to beam it out over the air, now we transmit it through the internet, but everyone has always expected it to be free. And musicians are still expected to make a ton of money off of their music, if a lot of people like it.

Was it free though? iTunes sold music for $1/song. Spotify and Pandora were ad-supported. People like me may have sailed the high seas as a teen in the 2000s, but those people didn't make up the majority of music listeners.

Today, I only buy physical media and from Bandcamp. The younger generation seem happy to pay subscriptions for Spotify and Apple Music. I think this has to do with mobile OSes hiding filesystem access and banning P2P apps from the walled garden.

Re: Imagine telling 2010 devs that in 2025, collapsing a div would require $8/ month

#110

Post by catapart »

palemoondrop wrote: post #44
tuoret wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CDs just feel so utterly pointless to me these days, since I can have the 100% identical content on a hard drive. Not trying to diss what you do, it's just a weird state of mind I entered once MP3 players and bluetooth speakers replaced CD players everywhere and I can't seem to shake it. Agree about the principle though, I try to buy merch at every gig I go to. Makes me feel slightly less bad about using Spotify.

Having something physical is nice, though. You can have the exact bits off the disc and maybe even the artwork on your hard drive, but you can't hold the album and look at it all together - especially for more elaborate packaging than your standard jewel case with inserts. In my mind, having something physical and not implicitly copyable makes it feel more real. I'm in my own weird state of mind where I prioritize co…

I've been thinking that what I would like as far as "physical copy" of my media would be more like a card than anything that is actually used to play the media.

Something like an NFC-equipped greeting card (maybe more than just a cover; pages can be inside for fun stuff that used to be in the CD inserts/jackets/etc), that I could set on a stand which would then interface with the card and start playing music. Pull the card, playback stops. You get the idea. I just think something like that would serve both purposes - look and display nicely, while giving a conversation piece and more content from the creators; but not prone to damage causing issues with playback and as durable as you want them to be (could be more like HID Prox cards; plastic instead of cardboard. Or even more "exotic" materials. Lots of room for creativity).

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