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EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

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Re: EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

#101

Post by FeepingCreature »

xvokcarts wrote: post #100
FeepingCreature wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe, but when regulation made by activists starts touching the lives of people that don't care about the thing activists want, they may not like the idea of activists deciding for them. That's not just any regulation, that's any act of government. > we don't know how most people will react if suddenly something they want is not available to them because of a minority that think their expertise is above their want…

> My best guess, tbh, is apathy. That's rather why they're not activists in the first place. Exactly. A few people want interoperability and everyone accepts it because they don't care since it doesn't affect their lives. I'm not a policy expert, but this seems a bit like riding the high horse. The answer to "what's best for others" should not be "that which we want for ourselves" regardless of expertise. We're not t…

To be clear, I do think this regulation is best for everybody and will improve human lives, including for people in the USA. Not including the companies affected, but I don't think they're morally deserving of protection beyond the necessary.

Re: EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

#102

Post by tpmoney »

rickdeckard wrote: post #96
tpmoney wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open protocols are great but they are also absolutely a hindrance on change. If you’ve ever worked on a public API you know how painful making a breaking change to that API can be. Inevitably something you want to change becomes some one else’s “hold space bar to heat room” feature. And sure you can have “private” Or reserved spaces in APIs, but that can often lead to messes like needed 5 different vendor specific CS…

> Open protocols are great but they are also absolutely a hindrance on change. If you’ve ever worked on a public API you know how painful making a breaking change to that API can be. I worked on public API's. If there's a justified need for a breaking change, make a new API and deprecate the old one. It can of course be harder than this, but its complication mainly comes from proper PLANNING of the action and AWARENE…

Agreed it is an OS. How many years will it be before audio on the Linux OS doesn’t suck? It’s way better than it used to be, but I still spent weeks this year trying to sort out what magic combination of alsa, and pipewire and pulse-audio and wireplumber setting, configs and launch timings would get HDMI audio to not come up muted on a mini PC with integrated Radeon graphics in Ubuntu. Surely the openness of the x86 platform and Linux itself would mean that these sort of experience should be easy and painless in the way that audio on macOS or even windows is right?

Or how about the huge fight that systemd has been (and continues to be). If we imagine a world where os init was regulated by the EU, what do we imagine the systemd integration into RedHat would have looked like? We might imagine it would have looked the same, or we could also imagine that it gets challenged and beaten down in court because it’s breaking the current open standards “for no reason”.

The world already has an open phone os with multiple hardware vendors platform. It’s called Android. What do we expect actually gets better if iOS is forced open and why is that not already an option on Android?

Re: EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

#103

Post by lucasban »

crote wrote: post #75
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might hurt short term sales, but it helps paint a picture of “evil EU won’t let us sell you the latest features”. I.e.: propaganda fuel.

How is that supposed to work? Apple doesn't have the market share it has in the US - it's at 33% in the EU compared to 57% in the US. Sure, they are popular, but they are still just another phone brand. They simply don't have enough hardcore fans to make a huge impact on a political level. The EU doesn't have the same kind of large-scale quasi-religious "all government bad" movement seen in the US. People may be skep…

For what it’s worth, Signal is also American.

Re: EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

#104

Post by regularjack »

tpmoney wrote: post #93
rickdeckard wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing restricts Apple from continuing to be this unified in their ecosystem. What the EU DMA tries to break, is Apple's "weaponization" of iOS to gain an unfair advantage in sales of accessories. So if Apple (the product-company) requires changes in iOS to realize a new feature in an accessory product, the changes in iOS will have to be opened to accessory-competitors as well. They would still be first-to-market wi…

Open protocols are great but they are also absolutely a hindrance on change. If you’ve ever worked on a public API you know how painful making a breaking change to that API can be. Inevitably something you want to change becomes some one else’s “hold space bar to heat room” feature. And sure you can have “private” Or reserved spaces in APIs, but that can often lead to messes like needed 5 different vendor specific CS…

Apple can afford maintaining the public APIs.

Re: EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

#105

Post by rickdeckard »

catchnear4321 wrote: post #95
rickdeckard wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing restricts Apple from continuing to be this unified in their ecosystem. What the EU DMA tries to break, is Apple's "weaponization" of iOS to gain an unfair advantage in sales of accessories. So if Apple (the product-company) requires changes in iOS to realize a new feature in an accessory product, the changes in iOS will have to be opened to accessory-competitors as well. They would still be first-to-market wi…

the existing os alongside the new instructions could restrict apple plenty unless you are saying you have inside knowledge about the amount of refactoring and new development necessary to comply, that would be fascinating to hear more about such restrictions would be likely to spill over into customer impact > you’re speculating which is essentially the same as providing an estimate in a work setting so… yes

I don't think it would actually restrict Apple. So far they are the owner of the playing field (iOS) and also invite other players (vendors) to play there, but whenever they also play they reserve the right to step in areas of the field noone else is allowed to.

They are now no longer allowed to play like that, so that maybe adds a new burden to them compared to before. But I wouldn't chime in on the framing how much they are suffering from that...

Re: EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

#106

Post by regularjack »

kirstenbirgit wrote: post #27

EU forgets that this kind of overzealous, micromanaging intervention only reduces incentives to innovate new features and products. If the EU forces companies with a competitive edge (better software, in this case) to make it available to their competitors, what’s the point? I can make my own decisions about which platforms and software to use, thank you very much. I don’t need or want EU to force companies to build…

You think it makes sense that non-apple smartwatches work fine on Android but not on iOS? If I have a Garmin and decide to switch phones from Android to iOS, the Garmin won't work as well.

That doesn't make sense to me and this is what will be fixed.

Re: EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

#107

Post by [deleted] »

mrtksn wrote: post #56

EU is still surprisingly naive and open for business. After TikTok getting banned(postponed for now) in US for national security reasons, and after US cutting military support and intelligence in Ukraine I was expecting for things to start rolling by now. They already start doing things on the military side of things with restricting the military equipment purchases to EU only with exceptions granted on the basis tha…

[deleted]

Re: EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

#108

Post by jisnsm »

dismalaf wrote: post #60
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might hurt short term sales, but it helps paint a picture of “evil EU won’t let us sell you the latest features”. I.e.: propaganda fuel.

The "USA" brand is currently taking a pummelling in Europe, this isn't a good strategy.

Maybe in progressive circles. There’s life outside too.

Re: EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

#109

Post by troupo »

xvokcarts wrote: post #34
troupo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OR losing a substantial fraction of EU device and accessory sales, I don’t think that’s a hard one for them. It isn't hard at all. "Develop stuff the way we want, or lose sales" is really not a hard decision at all. Funny how you end up with an answer that defies all common and business sense > with AI features coming much later to the EU, if at all. They are coming despite all of Apple's posturing, and on a schedu…

> "Develop stuff the way we want, or lose sales" I think the wants (of the EU buyers) are far less homogeneous than the group of open integration activists make it look like, so there's no "we". We hear the opinions of the vocal ones and based on those voices regulation is enacted, but nothing changes for the silent majority. However, a lot of people in the EU may start caring if they can no longer buy what they want…

> However, a lot of people in the EU may start caring if they can no longer buy what they want just because of the vocal few, and they may stop being silent about it when it touches them.

And what exactly will people not buy because of activists?

Here's however, the counterexample of "companies are so good for customers why do activists try to ruin a good thing": https://mastodon.nu/@mentese@mastodon.world/1141937468220224...

--- start quote ---

I’ve been an owner of Volvo’s like since I can afford to buy my own cars. Nowadays the full Volvo experience can only be achieved with a Google Account and log-in.

For me it was the end of Volvo’s in my garage and I switched brands.

--- end quote ---

Re: EU sends Apple first DMA interoperability instructions for apps and devices

#110

Post by sealeck »

tpmoney wrote: post #93
rickdeckard wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing restricts Apple from continuing to be this unified in their ecosystem. What the EU DMA tries to break, is Apple's "weaponization" of iOS to gain an unfair advantage in sales of accessories. So if Apple (the product-company) requires changes in iOS to realize a new feature in an accessory product, the changes in iOS will have to be opened to accessory-competitors as well. They would still be first-to-market wi…

Open protocols are great but they are also absolutely a hindrance on change. If you’ve ever worked on a public API you know how painful making a breaking change to that API can be. Inevitably something you want to change becomes some one else’s “hold space bar to heat room” feature. And sure you can have “private” Or reserved spaces in APIs, but that can often lead to messes like needed 5 different vendor specific CS…

Apple can change the API interfaces as they see fit, no?
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