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Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

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Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#101

Post by pclmulqdq »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #41

I'm low key afraid that this stuff is gonna get popular for .mil usage. Line of sight free space optics can be immune to many many forms of jamming. Its usage dots the sci books I've read over the years, but almost always for scary reasons. Here's the Navy today announcing work on AirBorne System for Optical Relay and Broadcast (ABSORB), a (for now) low-cost prototype one-to-many (I maybe mis-inferring what multi-acc…

There's already military usage of similar devices. I wouldn't be surprised if Taara has a supplier that also supplies several militaries.

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#102

Post by echoangle »

jampekka wrote: post #82
Workaccount2 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key breakthrough for 5G was allowing ~10x the number of devices to connect to a node compared to 4G. 5G is what allowed the toppling of data caps that was by far the #1 consumer complaint for years. 4G just couldn't handle heavy loads well, so data caps were needed to constrain demand. Teleco's aren't going to say this out load, but it's the real reason why they were so celebratory about 5G, despite it coming off…

> 4G just couldn't handle heavy loads well, so data caps were needed to constrain demand. In many parts of the world uncapped data has been the norm since around GPRS.

Could that be because they aren’t as densely populated by users so even if everyone with a phone has no data cap, they won’t overload the network? Which countries were that for example?

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#103

Post by miohtama »

cogman10 wrote: post #100
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #41

I'm low key afraid that this stuff is gonna get popular for .mil usage. Line of sight free space optics can be immune to many many forms of jamming. Its usage dots the sci books I've read over the years, but almost always for scary reasons. Here's the Navy today announcing work on AirBorne System for Optical Relay and Broadcast (ABSORB), a (for now) low-cost prototype one-to-many (I maybe mis-inferring what multi-acc…

LOS communications has been around for a long time now in the form of microwave towers. [1] But further, jamming is still doable, just not with a portable electronic device. Stir up some dust and all the sudden coms are down. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_transmission

I was doing communications in military. For temporary networks, we used microwave links and they requires line of sight. The reason to use direct link is that missiles can be easily targeted to any radio source you can hear and take down the network.

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#104

Post by cogman10 »

echoangle wrote: post #96
umvi wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Line of sight free space optics can be immune to many many forms of jamming The most powerful weapons on earth already are immune to jamming. ICBMs use celestial navigation (pictures of the stars) to course-correct, which is a form of navigation you cannot jam.

This form of navigation is probably only accurate enough for nuclear weapons, you’re not going to get meter-Range CEPs with that. You probably have to select a city you want to hit.

While you probably can't target a cigarette butt on the street, you could definitely hit a building. Especially if the ICBM is paired with image recognition (which it has already for star nav) and/or backup positioning mechanisms like cell tower locations or well-known broadcasting tower locations (think television stations).

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#106

Post by pclmulqdq »

cogman10 wrote: post #100
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #41

I'm low key afraid that this stuff is gonna get popular for .mil usage. Line of sight free space optics can be immune to many many forms of jamming. Its usage dots the sci books I've read over the years, but almost always for scary reasons. Here's the Navy today announcing work on AirBorne System for Optical Relay and Broadcast (ABSORB), a (for now) low-cost prototype one-to-many (I maybe mis-inferring what multi-acc…

LOS communications has been around for a long time now in the form of microwave towers. [1] But further, jamming is still doable, just not with a portable electronic device. Stir up some dust and all the sudden coms are down. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_transmission

Shoot a laser pointer at the receiver and there's a good chance you have jammed the thing.

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#107

Post by rapind »

echoangle wrote: post #97
charliebwrites wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn guess we have to blow up the stars …you know, for defense

Or create a lot of artificial ones to confuse the missile.

Swarms to block the cameras maybe?

At this point though, couldn’t you just blow up your own country and thus accelerate warming so much as to doom the rest of humanity in a dozen years? I might have read the wrong article on that though so don’t quote me.

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#108

Post by pclmulqdq »

HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #93
FlyingBears wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jam resistant comms are critical for drones, and other precision weapons and their infrastructure. Even if line of sight is interrupted modern drones can return to signal nowadays, relay information, and return to target with corrections. You may not need optical cable anymore

I expect drones will become fire-and-forget in two to three years. They won't be jammable because the pilot is in the drone.

Fire-and-forget drones already exist. They are called missiles.

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#109

Post by echoangle »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #9
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #2

It’ll go down at the first sign of rain. We’ve been there with microwave internet.

I know nothing about this technology but there are ways to get around similar issues. For example, twisted pair cables encode data as the DIFFERENCE between the two signals as those signals should be affected by the same noise sources. They could also transmit multiple redundant flows and error correct on the other side with a voting protocol or checksumming.

The differential signalling only helps if the noise offsets both signals in the same direction though. If it just attenuates (which fog for example will do to optical signals), it won’t help you. And the other method you described could work (depending on the SNR of course, at some point effectively no signal will come through the fog) but will lower data rate.

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#110

Post by cogman10 »

miohtama wrote: post #103
cogman10 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOS communications has been around for a long time now in the form of microwave towers. [1] But further, jamming is still doable, just not with a portable electronic device. Stir up some dust and all the sudden coms are down. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_transmission

I was doing communications in military. For temporary networks, we used microwave links and they requires line of sight. The reason to use direct link is that missiles can be easily targeted to any radio source you can hear and take down the network.

Yeah, I was aware of this because of work with telecommunications in rural locations. Nobody is burying a cable over a mountain, that's too expensive and too much work. So instead, they'll setup microwave towers. Being on a mountain has the benefit that you are already in elevated locations that are easy to shoot a phone signal across the range.
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