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How I got 100% off my train travel

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Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#101

Post by prmoustache »

controlledchaos wrote: post #11
sarreph wrote: post #8

The UK train system is a dire, expensive mess. Attempting to avoid getting directly political here, but I strongly believe it’s one of the lowest hanging fruit a political party could act on to curry favour with the electorate. Would be amazing to see this productised à la the way split ticketing works.

As a North American who travels in the UK multiple times per year, I really need you to elaborate. My experience has been nothing less than amazing, in comparison to the complete lack of rail options at home.

I have lived in Switzerland for year and my very limited experience with trains in Scotland has been great. Trains were on time, and personel at the railway stations were very polite and helpful with us.

But maybe we were just lucky.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#102

Post by twic »

pjc50 wrote: post #38
thebruce87m wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that when an English person says the north, they expect everyone to know they are talking specifically about the north of England, not the north of the UK even if everyone else is talking about the UK.

It's a very moveable dividing line depending on where the speaker is from, there's no Mason-Dixon line here. Can mean anywhere north of London. No normal person refers to Scotland as "north UK" when they could say Scotland, though.

You do occasionally see "North Britain" for Scotland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Britain

It was once common, and in modern times it's occasionally used as a deliberate affectation.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#103

Post by tehjoker »

mattigames wrote: post #91
HPsquared wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And "short-term cost, long-term benefit" is kryptonite to the average politician. "We get the blame, the next guy takes the credit"

One of the reasons China gets things done.

china has elections you know

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#104

Post by blibble »

Symbiote wrote: post #80
blibble wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not dire and it's not expensive compared to the next reasonable alternatives if you compare the cost of a London commuter belt season ticket compared to the cost of driving+parking, it is still very much a bargain

It's expensive for irregular users. If I want to visit friends in Derby, coming from London, that's £81. For no good reason, a return ticket is £84. If I need to travel at peak times, that's £123. Booked months in advance it might be £20, roughly what a bus ticket costs.

the return is 30p/mile, which is still considerably cheaper than driving

(HMRC rate is 45p/mile, which constitutes insurance, capital cost, wear, petrol, etc)

the single pricing is because they don't want to sell singles at all, but remember that return lets you come back upto a month later (your choice when)

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#105

Post by oniony »

controlledchaos wrote: post #11
sarreph wrote: post #8

The UK train system is a dire, expensive mess. Attempting to avoid getting directly political here, but I strongly believe it’s one of the lowest hanging fruit a political party could act on to curry favour with the electorate. Would be amazing to see this productised à la the way split ticketing works.

As a North American who travels in the UK multiple times per year, I really need you to elaborate. My experience has been nothing less than amazing, in comparison to the complete lack of rail options at home.

I often travel intercity to London and a ticket travelling out early, say, Monday and returning after peak hours, say, Wednesday costs upwards of £75. I have to book well in advance to get this price. I have just priced such a journey and the cheapest I can get for the days I chose next week is £105, for example. The journey time is about 2:20 but often it takes 10 minutes longer.

Quite often (maybe 1 in 6) my train to London would get cancelled. I would be able to get a refund no problem, but there is no compensation for the fact I have driven to the station and am now stuck without any travel plans.

Conversely I would have to arrive at the station early, for if I missed my train I would forfeit that half of the ticket and would have to pay again to travel on the later train. As such my journey would actually also include an extra 15 minutes of slack time in case the car didn't start and I needed to wake the wife for a lift, for example. It would also be quite stressful on the way home, where a meeting might overrun, putting my chances of getting my booked train at risk.

A year or two ago they opened a new "parkway" railway station (basically park-and-ride) and now the earliest train no longer stops at my local station. It would take me 30 minutes to drive to the parkway station, plus cost me £6 a day parking there, so my only option now is the later train which arrives in London at 8:30, if it is on time, making it impossible for me to start work before 9am.

The trains are supposed to have eight carriages, of which one is first class. On the outward journey I could often get a seat but the return journey would be standing only for the first hour. Quite often the train would arrive with only five carriages meaning it would be absolutely rammed the whole way. This leaves you very exhausted and sweaty for the start of the work day. And forget first class: it is twice the price of standard class.

So I've given up with the long distance train and now drive down to a commuter town near London and get the train just the final bit. I can also get into London much earlier and I don't have to pre-book specific trains. It's actually cheaper too, with the fuel and train tickets coming in at about £65, though obviously there's car depreciation, tyres, &c. on top.

So between £75-£130 for a prebooked ticket on an inflexible, specifically timed, intercity train, with a total journey time of about 3:00, or £65 for a drive down in my own car whatever times I want with a total journey time of about 3:30.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#106

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #15
dbspin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find this curious. Surely factoring in the cost of tax and insurance greatly increases the cost of the used car? I'm based in Europe so perhaps things are radically different in the US.

The difference is that in America we have politicians who cultivate a fear of cities, public transportation, and not owning a bigger car than you need.

...there's also the kind of housing uncertainty where "maybe I'll have to live in that car for a bit" is often a consideration. You might get away with living on the train for a little while, but a car is a much better bet.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#107

Post by pbhjpbhj »

oniony wrote: post #96
Symbiote wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

British train drivers are the best paid in Europe by a staggering amount. https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/12/23/train-strikes-the...

And the average UK citizen seems to have a huge problem with that, but seems to be completely happy with private train company executives getting paid obscene amounts and train companies paying out huge dividends when the services are so bad. Why do people resent train drivers getting paid well?

Because the media tells them to.

When train workers demanded inflationary pay maintenance the highest train driver pay was splashed all over the media in an attempt to get workers to hate one another and ignore the execs and shareholders walking off with all the money.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#108

Post by dijit »

tehjoker wrote: post #103
mattigames wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons China gets things done.

china has elections you know

Any elections in the People's Republic of China occur under a one-party authoritarian political system controlled by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP).

It's not the same, and as a consequence of being one-party; means (like the parent suggests) they can be more long term focused, which seems to be working.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#109

Post by londons_explore »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #107
oniony wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the average UK citizen seems to have a huge problem with that, but seems to be completely happy with private train company executives getting paid obscene amounts and train companies paying out huge dividends when the services are so bad. Why do people resent train drivers getting paid well?

Because the media tells them to. When train workers demanded inflationary pay maintenance the highest train driver pay was splashed all over the media in an attempt to get workers to hate one another and ignore the execs and shareholders walking off with all the money.

There shouldn't be any money to walk off with whilst services are more expensive and less good than most other countries.

Creating a market for a natural monopoly like train travel should always include simulated competition against other remote geographies (ie. France), and financial penalties for losing that competition.

Re: How I got 100% off my train travel

#110

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

ikawe wrote: post #40
dylan604 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suppose anything below 30 minutes is consideres "on time". sounds about right for the stereotype. it's the 'murikans that are the ones so uptight about time

I think by and large this doesn’t play out with trains. American trains tend to be much less frequent, slower, and less comfortable than most European trains. I road a swiss train a couple years ago that was something like 5 minutes late. To me (American) it was “on time” but the conductor came on the PA and apologized. He did make a point to clarify the delay was because they’d been stuck behind an off schedule Germ…

> less comfortable than most European trains.

For long haul journeys, not really true. The reclining seats on most Amtrak rolling stock are amazing compared to most European seating (bigger, softer and they genuinely recline). The sleeping cars on Amtrak are at least if not more comfortable than the equivalent in Europe until very recently (and that exception only applies to specific night train routes so far).

It is true that if you're just hopping on a train to move around within a metro area, or to take a short journey within a corridor, US trains are not particularly comfortable, and their European equivalents are probably more so.

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