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I'm done with coding

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Re: I'm done with coding

#101
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain why you hated working there

Oh my, how long you got? There were a ton of things, but I can really boil down to a few instances. First: The thing that really made me disenchanted with the company came down to an incident where I replied back to a previous email chain with (one of the higher-ups at Apple) with a topic that wasn't directly relevant to the subject of the previous emails, and then that asshole thought it was best to complain to ever…

It really is amazing how uptight people are and the lengths they'll go to ensure your managers know how much you've "offended" them. I've left all non-work Slack channels as a result of such an incident. Employees will also ask you questions as if they genuinely care about you and rather than correct you or give friendly advice, will go to your manager.

I've worked at startups for most of my career so I'm used to people talking to me directly with misgivings. The passive/indirect bullshit is super frustrating.

Re: I'm done with coding

#102
post #78

I've got this sentiment reading a few such goodbye letters like this. They often end by saying something like, "I quit software engineering. Because I can't make money at it, under these conditions." As if the options were work for Big Tech; work for a YC company (aka embryonic Big Tech); or be poor. So I'm gonna say it like this, to get the vibe across: It's pretty easy to run some Internet businesses and equal your…

What sort of businesses do you recommend? I’m hesitant to take on someone else’s codebase.

I'll just survey the landscape, and then say it ultimately comes down to personal preference.

So the basic idea is to get an audience and then monetize it. For that, there are different ways. In my opinion it's easier to buy something that gets traffic through this and then monetize it, then to buy a whole business, at least for the purposes of this conversation. Why? Because it's much easier to verify something is getting the traffic a platform's stats confirm, and then build a business on top of that, then to extrapolate correctly from a business someone is selling with a thousand moving parts.

With that being said: plenty of people buy complicated Internet businesses and achieve great results with them.

Also to reiterate from my earlier comment: if you can buy an account (some platforms do allow this) and start with traffic that's already earning a trickle of dollars, psychologically I believe that's 100 times easier than starting from nothing and painfully waiting months to earn a dollar. I recommend it whenever possible.

So without further ado here's how I rank the ways to get traffic. Notice how fractured this landscape this is; most people specialize in one, or perhaps two.

Google SEO: avoid avoid avoid. Not only is it saturated but the search arm of Google is a hard taskmaster. The most frustrating and abstruse of all the ways to make money online imo. I would only do this if I started by buying a niche content website business (aka one with prebuilt traffic).

YouTube: much more appealing than Google SEO but still a grind. However what you will learn here is all useful and the YouTube algo is, in a sense, a great marketing teacher. Unfortunately it takes so long to get off the ground that I'd also only enter this by buying a channel with traffic.

FaceBook: said to be lucrative but I don't know it. This is a great example of what I was saying about secret knowledge. How many people do you know who are enthused about creating FaceBook groups and attracting traffic to them? Yet this is, based on the available evidence, a solid business, maybe even the best of the ones listed here.

Instagram: seems tougher than YouTube in my opinion.

Pinterest: the new hotness, and currently being overrun by AI content lol. But AI + mass producing content is a viable strategy, and your North Star as someone looking to make money online is viable straegies.

TikTok: for profit, most likely better than Insta, and even YouTube. I just don't know enough about specific strategies for it unfortunately.

Newsletters: a good niche but kind of opaque (not easy to learn about and getting crowded). But said to be good.

Re: I'm done with coding

#103
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain why you hated working there

"They bring in a rookie, throw money at him, buy the car, the house, after a couple of years, and your kids are in private schools, you're used to the good life, they tell you the truth" Big salaries thrown at young people are bait. They don't need wild animals, but circus animals that are obedient, dependent and consistently perform tricks without too much thinking about why. Over time this involves such animals to…

I actually wasn't that young, I was 27 when I started and I was already "senior level" before I worked there.

Also, the salary was good but not as amazing as people to think. When I started there in 2018, I was making $165k/year; certainly not "bad" but not spectacular.

The stock grants were huge though. If I were still there I'd be worth more than a million now, I think.

Re: I'm done with coding

#104
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are absolutely good teams at Apple. I left a toxic one (Photos) to follow an co-worker I liked a lot who had become a manager (and his team had an opening). Honestly, it was a back-water project with just a handful of engineers on it. But my manager was awesome, my team was cool. My favorite stint at Apple was when I was working on MacOS frameworks. It was chill, you got no significant bonuses to speak of, no s…

I was indeed working in the Eddy Cue branch of Apple, though he wasn't the redacted person in the anecdote (someone close to him though, though I ask if you figure who it is that you do not post it here). I tried to do a transfer to another team (the storage backend for iCloud), went pretty far, and almost got an offer to move, but I had gotten a less-than-stellar review the previous year due to my attitude problems,…

When I was younger, I had "attitude problems" as well. I like to think though it was because I was passionate about what we were doing at Apple — how we were being perceived by the public.

I think I eventually just stopped giving a shit and instead more or less kept my head down. And perhaps that's too bad.

Re: I'm done with coding

#105

I've got this sentiment reading a few such goodbye letters like this. They often end by saying something like, "I quit software engineering. Because I can't make money at it, under these conditions." As if the options were work for Big Tech; work for a YC company (aka embryonic Big Tech); or be poor. So I'm gonna say it like this, to get the vibe across: It's pretty easy to run some Internet businesses and equal your…

Care to post any YouTube links that you find helpful?

Two guys who I think are posting good stuff are Jesse Cunningham and Jacky Chou. I'm not doing exactly what they're doing, but I notice a lot of overlap w/my learnings and what they're teaching, in terms of principles. So I believe they're directionally correct.

In general though on YouTube think about a business you'd like to enter, then search those keywords and start grinding through videos. If you're not sure what business to enter than start your search with "how to make money online" and again grind through videos. (Note: this won't be very fun). Some of the best videos are by no name guys with like 100 views precisely because they're starting from nothing and are more like you than the big names.

Re: I'm done with coding

#106
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was indeed working in the Eddy Cue branch of Apple, though he wasn't the redacted person in the anecdote (someone close to him though, though I ask if you figure who it is that you do not post it here). I tried to do a transfer to another team (the storage backend for iCloud), went pretty far, and almost got an offer to move, but I had gotten a less-than-stellar review the previous year due to my attitude problems,…

When I was younger, I had "attitude problems" as well. I like to think though it was because I was passionate about what we were doing at Apple — how we were being perceived by the public. I think I eventually just stopped giving a shit and instead more or less kept my head down. And perhaps that's too bad.

I think my biggest ongoing frustration was how much time I was expected to read and reply to emails; on my first day one of the first things I was instructed to do was to use their internal email filtering system (the name of which I can't remember), because if you didn't you'd have literally thousands of emails going into your main inbox. Mostly alerts, lots of cross-team announcements that weren't relevant to me, some Radar updates on tickets that I wasn't assigned to IIRC.

Even when I got the filters more or less under control, I would still have to spend a lot of time replying to emails throughout the day, or risk getting in trouble for letting them pile up.

It was pretty depressing, and I remember the first time I pushed back I ended up kind of yelling at my boss's boss about it when I said something like "You know, during the interview you asked me a lot of really hard computer science questions, I thought that's why you hired me, but maybe we should revise the process to just be a fucking endurance test of replying to emails for two hours and see how they do." He didn't like this suggestion, for whatever reason.

So I don't completely blame them for saying I had a bad attitude, and frankly I don't think I was a good fit for the AMP team of Apple; I am far too unorganized.

Re: I'm done with coding

#107
post #4

Kind of a strange sentiment? It seems like you're willing to take a paycut, so there's no shortage of jobs that will pay you a sustainable, but not FAANG, income to work on something respectable. I get wanting to take a break after working on something distasteful - I've been there! - but I can't say I'd give up on the field entirely after one job.

This person isn't really quitting software... they're just putting time into their own startup instead.

Re: I'm done with coding

#108
post #13

> I’ve tried to discuss this with my mom, and she kept telling me how “lucky” I am for working at Microsoft... I don't think I worked on any unethical part of Apple, I just worked on the indexing and caching for iTunes, but I really hated working there, and it was frustrating that whenever I complained about it, people would remind me how lucky I was to have a job at Apple. I survived 2.5 years there, but eventually…

I mean, a post on Reddit had a fresh 21 year-old out of college making a TC of $120,000/year - 2x the median annual salary of ~$60,000/year. So, yes. You're lucky

Re: I'm done with coding

#109
post #13

> I’ve tried to discuss this with my mom, and she kept telling me how “lucky” I am for working at Microsoft... I don't think I worked on any unethical part of Apple, I just worked on the indexing and caching for iTunes, but I really hated working there, and it was frustrating that whenever I complained about it, people would remind me how lucky I was to have a job at Apple. I survived 2.5 years there, but eventually…

I mean, a post on Reddit had a fresh 21 year-old out of college making a TC of $120,000/year - 2x the median annual salary of ~$60,000/year. So, yes. You're lucky

Sure, in some aspects I was lucky, but that didn't invalidate the things that frustrated me.

There was a post a few weeks ago that kind of encompassed the feeling pretty well, worth a read: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43089150

Re: I'm done with coding

#110
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh my, how long you got? There were a ton of things, but I can really boil down to a few instances. First: The thing that really made me disenchanted with the company came down to an incident where I replied back to a previous email chain with (one of the higher-ups at Apple) with a topic that wasn't directly relevant to the subject of the previous emails, and then that asshole thought it was best to complain to ever…

It really is amazing how uptight people are and the lengths they'll go to ensure your managers know how much you've "offended" them. I've left all non-work Slack channels as a result of such an incident. Employees will also ask you questions as if they genuinely care about you and rather than correct you or give friendly advice, will go to your manager. I've worked at startups for most of my career so I'm used to peo…

Yeah, I think most people end up learning the hard way that there's no equivalent to "attorney client privilege" in regards to coworkers and managers.

I like all my current coworkers, I think they're nice and smart people, and I don't think they're assholes at all, but I don't really say anything to them that I wouldn't be fine with HR hearing about, even during off hours. They're not bad people, and I don't think that they'd be overly vindictive, but I've been burned enough by coworkers that I have trouble trusting them.

Personally it's pretty hard to get me to tattle on people [1], in no small part because I think that most people don't need to be reminded six times for one mistake. I also just think that unfeeling bureaucracies are capable of unspeakable evil but that's far more of a tangent that I'm not going to get to in this message.

[1] With obvious exceptions, if I were to see outright abuse or fraud or something then I'd probably tell someone.

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