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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#101
post #72

I wish the EU was more ... united. Most of the nations were woefully slow to act with Ukraine (hey let's send some token helmets). They've got a totalitarian regime invading democracies in their back yard but don't seem all that united about it ....

Yes me too. Europe needs to get its act together and do _more_ but let’s also not adopt Trump’s descriptions of what has been given.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_aid_to_Ukra...

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#102
post #47

If I were American, I’d be sick with shame. As a European, I’m disgusted—not just by your leadership, but by your silence. Your country is spiraling into disgrace, yet you sit there, watching, complaining online, doing nothing. Where is your outrage? Where are the millions in the streets forcing change? By staying silent, you are complicit. Just like the Russians who let Putin tighten his grip for decades, you are le…

This summer is going to be spicy. Just you wait.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#103

It was as if they invited him to the Whitehouse to set him up for a lecture and scolding. They had no intention of anything other than humiliating him in front of the world. It's shameful what our administration has done.

It 100% looks like they were planning to force a confrontation. Notice how all the escalation is them, they start escalating over basically nothing, and they keep trying to crank up the temperature while Zelenskyy's keeping things nice and even. This didn't happen the last couple times world leaders made far more confrontational statements in a similar setting, but also Vance wasn't there to provide emotional support those times and, well, there are some common sayings about the actual nature of a bully.

I think Zelenskyy didn't give them the sound-bites or vibe they were looking for, but they're claiming some kind of victory (WTF) on social media anyway. Meanwhile all they managed to do was look some combination of stupid, childish, and traitorous, while he came out looking incredibly restrained, and overall more-articulate than them despite the handicap of speaking in English rather than his native tongue.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#105
Thank god that finally we're going to stop sending hundreds of thousands of men into a meat grinder for no purpose. Ofc, Trump is doing this in great part because he personally hates Zelensky and Biden. He's doing what he did to Obama and just unwinding everything his predecessor did. He also correctly ascertains that this is a huge waste of money that is counterproductive.

All the liberal cold warriors that wanted to bleed russia made Russia stronger by doing this. Not that I care either way, but it's funny to watch these war hawks have it blow up in their face, not that they really care since they are eating charcuterie at DC lawn parties with their Raytheon bucks.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#106
post #47

If I were American, I’d be sick with shame. As a European, I’m disgusted—not just by your leadership, but by your silence. Your country is spiraling into disgrace, yet you sit there, watching, complaining online, doing nothing. Where is your outrage? Where are the millions in the streets forcing change? By staying silent, you are complicit. Just like the Russians who let Putin tighten his grip for decades, you are le…

I get what you’re saying, but Europe has its disgraces as well and I don’t see anyone rioting in the streets en masse. Don’t get me started on the UK, where core rights like freedom of speech/expression are a joke, yet I don’t see anyone rioting. I mean, maybe they ARE rioting, but any news about it being censored.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#107
post #82

It looks like the US wants a regime change in Ukraine, it's possible that this became a pre condition from russia for talks to go forward. OTOH, a minerals deal with the US ensures that the US will have a stake in defending the postwar ukraine. Lots of drama and optics involved for sure, but it seems the outcome or the talks was predetermined JdVance will not last for long - is there procedure to replace him?

Putin said he would gladly share with the US. So there is yet another, larger carrot dangling in front of Trump's eyes.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#109
post #44

Sorry about the podcast link, the gist is that Ukraine now can build drones from cardboard, controlled from Kiev, London etc. that can destroy Russian tanks. https://www.ft.com/content/8793e218-9dc4-43a8-8183-e2a092bbb...

More of the Ukraine conversation needs to be focused on this topic. The future of warfare is digital, automated, and utterly terrifying, and it's currently being shaped on the Ukrainian frontlines. Western militaries are going to be able to leapfrog their force structure based on the learnings in this war.

Ukraine is paying with their citizens lives for NATO to receive this education, while simultaneously weakening one of the western world's most dangerous geopolitical rivals. The fact that Americans can't see through the Fox News propaganda to understand this is unbelievable, embarrassing, and will set them back on the world stage for a generation or more.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#110
post #72

I wish the EU was more ... united. Most of the nations were woefully slow to act with Ukraine (hey let's send some token helmets). They've got a totalitarian regime invading democracies in their back yard but don't seem all that united about it ....

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