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Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes

swedenherald.com

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Re: Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes

#101

Post by genewitch »

ibotty wrote: post #86
dijit wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have unpopular opinions about this, because Signal has been so hostile to anyone other than Signal themselves being involved. But to be specific: "open source" claims go out the window when they're; 1. Not reproducible (before anyone links me to the "reproducible steps" please actually read them because they tell you directly that they will not create a reproducible output). 2. Able to hide development of mobilecoi…

Can you point out where it says it won't be a reproducible output? https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/blob/main/reprod...

I skimmed and didn't see that but the "apkdiff" script extracting the apk because "diff doesn't work well on zips" made my gut twitch.

Why can't I sha256sum the two apk?

Re: Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes

#102

Post by radlad »

louwrentius wrote: post #84
vaylian wrote: post #10

There is a reason why Free Software (as in freedom) was invented: To ensure that those who create the software do not overpower those who use the software. The idea, that companies or politicians can force the user's machine to work against it's owner, is wrong. And it is wrong, because to be a human in the 21st century means in most cases, that your digital devices and your digital interactions are a core part of wh…

It may be wrong, but it proves that technology can't beat politics and policy. The issue with Apple caving to UK demands regarding encryption, and now Signal being in a similar situation, shows that you can't just focus on technology and ignore policy and politics. And you'll find out that a ton of people here on HN will care, but most of the public won't. People should take XKCD 538 really to heart (The 5$ wrench on…

Did Apple cave to UK's demands? I thought instead they removed their product from the market, like Signal.

We're talking about companies though, not technology. Something like Bitcoin or BitTorrent can be regulated, but not stopped.

Re: Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes

#103

Post by bodge5000 »

Schiendelman wrote: post #29
bramhaag wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, only some claim to "remain committed to offering our users the highest level of security for their personal data" while turning off E2EE cloud storage for an entire country.

What else could they have done?

As Signal are doing here, they could have refused to do business (at least, with iCloud) in that country. That's a far bigger pushback than simply capitulating to removing a relatively unknown feature.

To be clear, if they did this and the UK gov called their bluff, it'd affect me personally, but I'd rather that than swinging open the backdoors

Re: Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes

#104

Post by the8472 »

marcinzm wrote: post #81
vaylian wrote: post #10

There is a reason why Free Software (as in freedom) was invented: To ensure that those who create the software do not overpower those who use the software. The idea, that companies or politicians can force the user's machine to work against it's owner, is wrong. And it is wrong, because to be a human in the 21st century means in most cases, that your digital devices and your digital interactions are a core part of wh…

> Invading the privacy of one's digital space is a violation that goes as deep as reading someone's diary when we look back and the time when life was more analog. Which police with a warrant can very much do.

That is a significant hurdle. They have to do it for each individual target, show up in person and each case can be contested in court.

Scalable surveillance is different, just as scalable weapons are different.

Re: Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes

#105

Post by lxgr »

louwrentius wrote: post #84
vaylian wrote: post #10

There is a reason why Free Software (as in freedom) was invented: To ensure that those who create the software do not overpower those who use the software. The idea, that companies or politicians can force the user's machine to work against it's owner, is wrong. And it is wrong, because to be a human in the 21st century means in most cases, that your digital devices and your digital interactions are a core part of wh…

It may be wrong, but it proves that technology can't beat politics and policy. The issue with Apple caving to UK demands regarding encryption, and now Signal being in a similar situation, shows that you can't just focus on technology and ignore policy and politics. And you'll find out that a ton of people here on HN will care, but most of the public won't. People should take XKCD 538 really to heart (The 5$ wrench on…

> technology can't beat politics and policy.

It often only can't in a world of mandatory centralized app stores. That's not the only possible world.

Re: Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes

#106

Post by mantas »

tokai wrote: post #77
mantas wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. Crime gangs had myriad of ways to hire youth before. There could be other ways to make sure there’s no huge pool of youth waiting to be hired. But that may be politically too hard.

Please do your research before throwing that term after me. I don't care if you think its markedly different for crime recruiting earlier. Point is contracts for killings are put online and planned through Signal. The Swedish police find it annoying as it makes it hard to find the money men. That's the reason for why Sweden want the back door. If it makes sense or not has no bearing on what I wrote.

I’m throwing that term at Swedish police, not at you.

Gangs would find another communication channel before the law is put into effect. Yet backdoor would be there forever.

Re: Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes

#107

Post by microtonal »

What is the state of peer to peer messengers with E2EE? Over ten years ago, Bittorrent Inc. (now Rainberry and Resilio) made a serverless chat client (Bleep IIRC). But I don't think there is anything new that is also user-friendly? (Drop-in replacement of WhatsApp, Signal, iMessage, etc.)

Re: Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes

#109

Post by bee_rider »

metayrnc wrote: post #3

> The Armed Forces, on the other hand, are negative and write in a letter to the government that the proposal cannot be realized "without introducing vulnerabilities and backdoors that can be exploited by third parties First time I am seeing an organization against this. Kudos to them for standing up.

TOR was sort of famously contributed to by a dude in US Naval research early on, right?

They are militaries, not police or intelligence forces. The job is to be ready to do war, not nanny and snoop on civilians (Some of that might be a necessary side effect but it isn’t their reason for being).

Re: Signal to leave Sweden if backdoor law passes

#110

Post by gloosx »

kikokikokiko wrote: post #74
smokel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the philosophy of Free Software does not account for the scale at which software is being run now. Having the source code to a printer driver available is a completely different thing than being dependent on a platform, because all your friends and relations are using it. Personally, I'd only trust a governmental agency to provide such services, which makes the article we're discussing ironic at the le…

"Personally, I'd only trust a governmental agency to provide such services" I understand where you're coming from, "the ultimate goal of a company is to profit and so we can not trust it to protect their users/consumers interests instead of their own" but... you know that it is always the government that will put you in prison, or send you to war right? That it is a blob of power, controlled by people right? This gov…

There are a lot of pragmatic pro-government people here, holding tightly to the "51% > 49%" core principle of democracy, which sadly turns into a mess at the scale of humanity, just like any other model we've invented so far. There isn't a real alternative for us collectively now but to submit to power – so any even slightly anarchistic views are not welcome here most of the time...
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