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Some critical issues with the SWE-bench dataset

arxiv.org

101–110 of 121 posts

Re: Some critical issues with the SWE-bench dataset

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last sentence feels kind of spot on. The lack of transparency around confidence in the answer makes it hard to use (and I know it would not be simple to add such a thing)

sounds like a skill issue to be honest. you could probably tell the assistant to just ask you questions when information is missing instead

But it doesn't know when information is missing

Re: Some critical issues with the SWE-bench dataset

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My gut tells me the AIs will be best for small web projects that are greenfield. The kind a 1-3 person team could maintain. And my gut tells me they are the worst for the kinds of long-established software conglomerates many professionals work at, which have tons of internal services, integrated acquisitions, etc. etc. Ultimately the AI is good at what the average developer online is good at, probably full-stack web…

Your intuition runs counter to most folks experience. I work on complex machine learning training loops and loss functions. LLMs work great on that.

I didn't say it cannot work well on anything other than greenfield web projects. I said it would probably be best at those as those have the most training data available. It can work well for your use case and still fit the pattern I laid out

Re: Some critical issues with the SWE-bench dataset

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My gut tells me the AIs will be best for small web projects that are greenfield. The kind a 1-3 person team could maintain. And my gut tells me they are the worst for the kinds of long-established software conglomerates many professionals work at, which have tons of internal services, integrated acquisitions, etc. etc. Ultimately the AI is good at what the average developer online is good at, probably full-stack web…

but that kind of code is so easy to write, and code is already way more terse than natural language! it's literally more typing to explain to an LLM how to write some greenfield web CRUD than it is to just type out the code, and if there's a lot of boilerplate it's faster to generate the repetitive parts with keyboard macros! where's the value everyone on this site and on LinkedIn (but NONE in my real or professional…

> it's literally more typing to explain to an LLM how to write some greenfield web CRUD than it is to just type out the code, and if there's a lot of boilerplate it's faster to generate the repetitive parts with keyboard macros!

I mostly agree with you, but I do think it's faster than searching for and finding the boilerplate you need. I also think AI code completions and the ability to use it to generate the small blocks you will put together into the main app are helpful. Idk, it's not a nothing burger. It's not going to start working at AWS either.

Re: Some critical issues with the SWE-bench dataset

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost every time someone says "but most of my code nowadays is LLM generated" it's usually one of three things: 1. Very greenfield work where the LLM doesn't really have a lot of constraints to deal with and can fully control the setup + doesn't have to ingest a lot of existing context 2. Very small projects that largely follow established patterns (CRUD, frontends, etc.) 3. Well established implementation work (the…

I assume it's the commoditized work that made India a success at outsourced activities.

I suspect it's a lot of that too. Essentially pattern matching.

Re: Some critical issues with the SWE-bench dataset

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My gut tells me the AIs will be best for small web projects that are greenfield. The kind a 1-3 person team could maintain. And my gut tells me they are the worst for the kinds of long-established software conglomerates many professionals work at, which have tons of internal services, integrated acquisitions, etc. etc. Ultimately the AI is good at what the average developer online is good at, probably full-stack web…

Your intuition runs counter to most folks experience. I work on complex machine learning training loops and loss functions. LLMs work great on that.

With respect, having trialed these tools on pretty large ML codebases it's very much most folks' experiences that they're not very good across the board.

Training loops, sure... those are pretty much straight pattern recognition w/ well-represented APIs. But more broadly? Not so much.

Re: Some critical issues with the SWE-bench dataset

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but that kind of code is so easy to write, and code is already way more terse than natural language! it's literally more typing to explain to an LLM how to write some greenfield web CRUD than it is to just type out the code, and if there's a lot of boilerplate it's faster to generate the repetitive parts with keyboard macros! where's the value everyone on this site and on LinkedIn (but NONE in my real or professional…

You might not be getting gaslit. I’ve sat through some interviews recently with candidates who started their careers in the last 6 years or so… during the boom cycle. Some were quite good but a troubling amount were clearly over-leveled at their current/previous employers. For example, last month we interviewed someone for a Staff Engineering role (current role: L5 Senior II engineer), for Python. This person was una…

I'm pretty sure that's what's going on too. The quality of junior -> midlevel engineers has plummeted and these AI tools have been a major crutch to help them appear productive/competent again.

Problem is they don't know enough to really assess if what the LLM is spitting out is any good or not so they claim amazing wins.

Re: Some critical issues with the SWE-bench dataset

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but that kind of code is so easy to write, and code is already way more terse than natural language! it's literally more typing to explain to an LLM how to write some greenfield web CRUD than it is to just type out the code, and if there's a lot of boilerplate it's faster to generate the repetitive parts with keyboard macros! where's the value everyone on this site and on LinkedIn (but NONE in my real or professional…

Have you tried the AI intellisense models like Copilot? I don't understand the notion that it is faster to generate repetitive code with keyboard macros. I use Vim-mode exclusively, and while I'm not a Vim master, I don't think there's any set of macros that will do what Copilot can do. It's not that Copilot is smart. It's that 60% of what I do doesn't require much intelligence to anticipate. It is the 40% that matte…

Copilot is very different though. FWIW most people seem to find copilot super valuable.

The discussion is more around highly autonomous AI "coders" (cursor, cline/roocode, (open)devin, etc.)

Re: Some critical issues with the SWE-bench dataset

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's true in many fields with these AI agents. They demo well, but when you put them to actual work they fall right on their face. Even worse, the harder the task you set for them the more they lie to you. It's like hiring a junior dev from one of those highly regimented societies where it's more important to save face than to get the job done.

It's almost as if they're not trying to market to the people actually using the products, but trying to convince investors of features that don't exist

Yep it's "full self driving in 1 year" all over again.

Re: Some critical issues with the SWE-bench dataset

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My gut tells me the AIs will be best for small web projects that are greenfield. The kind a 1-3 person team could maintain. And my gut tells me they are the worst for the kinds of long-established software conglomerates many professionals work at, which have tons of internal services, integrated acquisitions, etc. etc. Ultimately the AI is good at what the average developer online is good at, probably full-stack web…

but that kind of code is so easy to write, and code is already way more terse than natural language! it's literally more typing to explain to an LLM how to write some greenfield web CRUD than it is to just type out the code, and if there's a lot of boilerplate it's faster to generate the repetitive parts with keyboard macros! where's the value everyone on this site and on LinkedIn (but NONE in my real or professional…

> but that kind of code is so easy to write, and code is already way more terse than natural language! it's literally more typing to explain to an LLM how to write some greenfield web CRUD than it is to just type out the code, and if there's a lot of boilerplate it's faster to generate the repetitive parts with keyboard macros!

> where's the value everyone on this site and on LinkedIn (but NONE in my real or professional life) seems to get?

I can remember how to describe that every time I need to make a button. I can’t remember the new flavor of the months special snowflake way of expressing that. I’ve had decent traction just listing the pieces in my stack and then subbing those out whenever it changes

Re: Some critical issues with the SWE-bench dataset

#110
post #73

Some of the examples in the paper seem to be wrong. For django-31056, they claim the AI-generated patch is "incomplete" because it's "missing critical parts of this logic, such as the try-except block and the check for a running event loop.". But if you look at the diff, that's clearly wrong. The try-except block and running check were already there before the patch. The human patch just indented them, making them ap…

The entire premise of this paper is false. They claim that the "hints_text" is used and leaks the answer in Section 2.1.1; however, the authors of SWE-Bench themselves state that this is not used anywhere (Issue #133 on the official SWE-Bench GitHub). According to the paper: > 1. Solution leak: represents instances where the solution to the issue is clearly outlined in the issue description or comments on GitHub. Sin…

Hmm. For the example they give of solution leakage, sympy issue 16669 aka sympy__sympy-16766[1], the solution actually appears in problem_statement, so it seems to be genuine leakage. But you're right that they claim that hints_text is used, so they may have improperly winnowed out other instances where the solution only appears in hints_text.

[1] Don't ask me why they cited the issue number, 16669, instead of the pull request number, 16766, when only the latter appears in the dataset. This confused me for a bit.

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